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Japanese Conditionals, Time Expressions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| metordorus Newbie United States Joined 5746 days ago 26 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 5 21 August 2009 at 5:56pm | IP Logged |
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Can anyone suggest a reference work or grammar that has a good, succinct explanation of Japanese ways to express the notions conveyed by "when" and "if" in English?
I have a number of reference works on Japanese grammar, and I cannot find a comprehensive and comprehensible account of -たら and -ば and related phenomena like -と clauses. By the way, I read Spanish, French, and German in addition to English, so the account can be in any of those languages. Edited by metordorus on 21 August 2009 at 5:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes  1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 2 of 5 21 August 2009 at 10:04pm | IP Logged |
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Hi metordorus,
I'm afraid I don't have a suggestion, but if you don't mind me taking up your time with this, I think I might be able to explain what helps me. There are many times when these are interchangable, and if anyone else comes in after me who's more experienced then please take their word over mine. This is ~なら ("regarding") もし彼女がシャイなら 、知らない人ばかりの電内で化粧が出来るわ けありません。 If the women were really shy then they wouldn't be able to put makeup on in front of strange people on the train. It's usually used in a conversation to introduce new information to a topic that was already stated. Here my friend is saying something that changes what we'd just been talking about, namely, the idea that Japanese women are shy. ~たら If A happens (maybe) then B will follow. But things may not necessarily happen in an order that we think. (A may not happen, but if it does, then B.) Unlike と、ば you can express wishes or requests after ~たら 見せてくれたら,... If you show me,(A) then.....(B) 雨が降ったら、試合は中止する。 If it rains (A) the match will be canceled (B). もし予定が変わったら知らせます。 If my schedule changes (A) I'll let you know (B). (I've read if you start using たら as your first conditional chances are you won't be wrong.) と is like "when" (not とき which is used to talk about things already experienced) このボタンを押すと、機械が動きます。 If/when you push the button the machine will start. We can use this when we say something is natural or a force of habit. When we say things like "when the sun goes down it will get dark" we can't use ~たら, ~なら. 春になるなら is wrong. "if spring comes" sounds funny in their language. (of course spring comes!) 春になると "When spring comes" is more accurate. ば is a little bit more formal and matter-of-fact. It's kind of predetermined how things would go "in case of". I understand this as being closest to English. 甘くなければ、食べないよ。 If it's not sweet, I won't eat it. 雨が降れば、みすぶそくが解決する。 If it rained, the drought would be solved. one more thing. If you learn something because of a certain action that occured then you use と, たら 泳ぎに行ったら、プールには水がなかった。 I went swimming (A) but there was no water in the pool!(B) I'm still a little fuzzy on the nuances. writing about it helps me to remember (thanks for bringing it up.) I'd be glad if this helps you in any way. Good luck! Edited by Sunja on 22 August 2009 at 2:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5781 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 3 of 5 22 August 2009 at 5:12am | IP Logged |
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Try looking here (English) and here (Japanese), both pages by the same author. Other lessons (found on the main page) include breakdowns of each conditional separately as well as other important grammar points.
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| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 4 of 5 22 August 2009 at 2:51pm | IP Logged |
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Hey that's brilliant, this is what I need. Thanks for the link!
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| metordorus Newbie United States Joined 5746 days ago 26 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* | Message 5 of 5 25 August 2009 at 3:46am | IP Logged |
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Sunja and Eric, Thank you so much!
Eric, in particular, I must thank you. Several months ago you responded to a question I had on -ている forms with a very illuminating post. Now you've directed me to a very useful site. Thanks so much. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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