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LINGQ: Explicit grammar instruction | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 17 of 69 13 August 2007 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Iversen,
If I look at the range of languages that you have learned,I am not surprised that you are comfortable reading a grammar book. I cannot. It is not for lack of trying. I have lots of them at home. I cannot use them. It is my belief that a majority of people learning languages, who have usually not learned 5 or more languages, have a similar inability to relate to or even have an aversion to grammar explanations. They do not even understand grammar explanations for their own language. On the other hand, most people are interested in something. The power of repetitive listening and reading is so great, that if you can let people choose content, make it easier for them to understand the meaning, and let them ask questions when they are stumped, I believe that most average learners will do better and stay with their studies. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6365 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English* | Message 18 of 69 13 August 2007 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My sister recently received a stack of Spanish books from a Spanish professor who worked with her. She's returning to South America, and, knowing through my sister that I've been studying Spanish, she decided to leave a bunch of things for me. I haven't seen them yet, but my sis is mailing them. Some of the things are definitely grammar and textbooks. I'm actually looking forward to browsing through them, as the last time I saw a Spanish textbook was in high school, and I can barely remember them (except for a lot of pictures and "cultural knowledge" tidbits). It'll be interesting to look at them with a little more knowledge about the language.
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| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6556 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 19 of 69 13 August 2007 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
is it comprehensible? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 20 of 69 13 August 2007 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
Of course it is comprehensible. There are word lists in each chapter in the Teach Yourself or Colloquial starters. That is one thing that I do not like about Assimil, no word lists per chapter. I also had the 27 episodes of our beginner story from the English section of LingQ translated into Russian and recorded. I listened to it 50 times or more. I still hear the phrases when I encounter words that were in that story. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6556 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 21 of 69 13 August 2007 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I ask because often a text will throw a dialog at you, but it takes many pages of explanation, along with studying, before it's comprehensible. I assume if you took a dialog and a vocabulary list out of a chapter, you'd at least have to study the vocabulary a while before the dialog became comprehensible, right? I keep hearing it's best to know about 90% of the words.
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| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 22 of 69 13 August 2007 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Most starters will also give you translation for the first ten lessons or so, a well as a vocab lists. I find the grammar explanations superfluous. I need to the feel for the language so I just listen over an over, reading the target language or the translation.
I normally try the dialog without reviewing the word list. That makes me hungrier to know the words. When you just review the words ahead of time, very little sticks, at least for me. It is often said that you should not have more than 5% unknown words in order to enjoy reading and be able to guess the meaning. I do not know.Certainly reading without help, the fewer unknown words the better. I read either to learn words or for enjoyment. In the first case if I am using a system like LingQ I can go up to 40% unknown words. (this is something we measure on LingQ). But it is pleasant at 20% unknown words. At 5% or less I think I can read away from the computer for enjoyment. The important thing is to feel that the words you are learning, or at least starting to learn, are accumulating in some meaningful way so that you can go back and review them and review where you came across them. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7098 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 23 of 69 14 August 2007 at 9:37am | IP Logged | |||||
Zhuangzi, By contrasting two polarized views on the role of grammar instruction, you just proved a point that a couple of us having been trying to make for a while -- people learn differently -- try taking an inventory of your style before selecting a method. :) John 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 24 of 69 14 August 2007 at 9:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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John,
That is whee I disagree. I do not believe that we learn so differently. I believe this is just one more example of the over complication that plagues language learning. I believe that everyone benefits from massive input of the language, both listening and reading. As much as possible the content should be chosen by the learner and at the learner's level. I am sure that our interest in grammar varies, as does our interest in other subjects. Those who are interested in grammar should use grammar and read about grammar. It does not require a test of learning styles to determine if you are interested in grammar. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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