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LINGQ: Explicit grammar instruction | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6626 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 65 of 69 24 August 2007 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Language is species specific behavior. Languages are acquired in the way the human brain evolved to acquire them. This means ample exposure to language that is comprehensible (comprehensible input). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Wings Senior Member Ireland n/a Joined 6362 days ago 130 posts - 131 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 66 of 69 05 September 2007 at 4:54am | IP Logged | |||||
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Harsh words exchanged above. Let’s just agree you can’t have one without the other. I agree with linguamor, you do need comprehensible input into your brain to learn effectively. However, comprehensible doesn’t mean that you should know every grammar rule that there is, and if you know every grammar rule that exists you won’t speak the language unless you have a large repertoire of words.
But as a native speaker of your own language you know you didn’t learn to speak it with the aid of a grammar book. As an adult you will feel the need for a grammar book, but that’s because you are learning your target language now - as an adult – with less exposure to it than when you were learning your native tongue as a child. So as an adult you do need grammar, but you don’t need to study it, rather learn complete phrases and individual words. Grammar is there to explain why we say that phrase that particular way, (ahhh that’s why it’s said like that) but at the end of the day these rules only become clear with practice, while reading especially because you can see the structure of the sentence, and by listening. But as a beginner who says it’s not comprehensible if you know nothing about grammar. My first read it yourself book, I read as a child didn’t come with “Explicit grammar instruction” Edited by Wings on 05 September 2007 at 9:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| DrZero Newbie United States Joined 6321 days ago 13 posts - 14 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 67 of 69 05 September 2007 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't understand why one would purposefully avoid grammar explanations. A learner is eventually going to
need to master the grammar one way or another, otherwise one would speak like Tarzan or something. I think Steve's point is that the grammar should be absorbed through experience with the language, in a naturalistic manner, rather than studied as such. Fair enough, but I don't see a reason to treat that as a religion. If I were learning, say, Spanish, I would like to do at least a basic study of the grammar so that I know there is a conjugation system that looks like this, there are irregular verbs, there's a gender system, etc. Then when I read or listen to the language, at least I know what I'm looking at. (I think this is essentially the method Steve uses -- a brief overview of grammar, then plunge in.) Others may like to study the grammar a little more in-depth initially. I don't see how this would hurt -- it's a matter of degree. The point would be that making grammar the focus -- the way I imagine people study Latin -- would not be efficient. I personally would probably study grammar a little more than Steve advises (depending on the language) but not as much as a junior-high Latin student. In the end, you've got to get the grammar one wya or another. There's no such thing as doing without. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| portunhol Triglot Senior Member United States thelinguistblogger.w Joined 6260 days ago 198 posts - 299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (classical) | Message 68 of 69 15 December 2008 at 1:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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I know that I'm entering this discussion pretty late but I just want to agree with DrZero. I like doing a mix and am more inclined to study grammar than Steve is. I also agree 100% with the fact that studying grammar only helps so much. There are too many rules to remember. I like to use grammar as a guide but not as a crutch. I like interacting with natives as soon as possible because then I get access to the way the language is actually used. Communication is so much more than just grammar rules: it's what we talk about, where we put the emphasis in the phrase, the pitch of our voice, etc. No text book or grammar book will teach you that.
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6019 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 69 of 69 15 December 2008 at 8:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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All I know is that I would never have learned the Spanish subjunctive if no-one had told me what it was -- it's just too different from anything I'd seen before.
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