|
 |
LL and final D in Spanish (Europe) | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6148 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes  | Message 9 of 16 26 June 2009 at 3:57am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually according to this article on wikipedia. It was used historically but is now only preserved by minorities speaking Spanish as a second language whose own languages have this sound. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 16 26 June 2009 at 4:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't see them saying that in that article. That section about Yeísmo talks about a "palatal lateral approximant", written ll, and then explains how it has merged with other sounds in different ways. I can't see any mention of "ll" being pronounced as two separate phonemes L and Y in any of the different cases. It's a good article btw. Edited by Hencke on 26 June 2009 at 4:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| anamsc Triglot Senior Member Andorra Joined 6203 days ago 296 posts - 382 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Written), French | Message 11 of 16 26 June 2009 at 5:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
I don't think that when people say to pronounce "ll" as LY they're saying to pronounce it as two separate phonemes, like /lj/ or anything. It's just a way of approximating the sound for both English speakers and "yeista" Spanish speakers who don't have words like "palatal lateral approximant" in their vocabulary.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6148 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 12 of 16 26 June 2009 at 6:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
OK, I thought you were saying it was never pronounced as a palatal lateral approximant or a palatalized "l", the same sound in Italian "gli". Edited by Alkeides on 26 June 2009 at 6:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 13 of 16 26 June 2009 at 10:45am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
I think the problem with the "LY" approximation is that everyone pronounces LY differently, too. It may seem easier than all the technical terminology or long descriptions, but I don't know how you pronounce LY and you don't know how I pronounce LY.
Compare with "It's the same shape as a tree". When I say that, some of you will think of olive trees, others will think of pine trees; everyone will think of the sort of trees that they have near them. The result is that everyone will have a different picture in their heads. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| guilon Pentaglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6192 days ago 226 posts - 229 votes Speaks: Spanish*, PortugueseC2, FrenchC2, Italian, English | Message 14 of 16 27 June 2009 at 6:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||
In Uruguay and Argentina LL is not only pronounced as a French J but as an English SH as well, depending on the particular region, the age of the speaker, etc. and I think sometimes they even interchange both sounds. Now, about Bolivia, they don't use those sounds for LL, I believe the Highlanders tend to use the "real" sound (the one that's been discussed here) and the Lowlanders prefer a plain Y. On the other hand, that RR sound you hear from Bolivians is only present in the Highlands and is not at all the same as the Argentinian LL, I don't think I've heard this peculiar sound in any other language, they create it by making the tip of their tongue buzz against their palate, just the tip of it. Some Mexicans use that sound too. Fascinating. By the way, I happen to have heard the "real" sound of LL in the most disparate regions of the Spanish speaking world but not in very wide areas just in localized territories. Fascinating as well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6368 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 16 01 July 2009 at 2:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
LL is pronounced something like LY in Catalá, not in Castillian.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kerateo Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5646 days ago 112 posts - 180 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: Italian | Message 16 of 16 10 July 2009 at 10:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Well... my two cents being a native Spanish speaker from Mexico... the standard is to pronounce it just as "y" however, and this may interest some people, it is a lot "sexier" to pronounce it differently, like E-SH-A or E-I-A for "ella" (read it in Spanish, no idea how to explain de sound to English speakers)
1 person has voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
