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Question @everyone in the US/UK/OZ/etc. | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| FrenchLanguage Senior Member Germany Joined 5736 days ago 122 posts - 135 votes  | Message 1 of 23 27 June 2009 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'll tryto keep it as brief as possible:
Do people who immigrate to the US or UK and only then learn the language (normally) learn to speak it like a native speaker? I'M thinking mostly of grammatical nuances (NOT accent). Do you normally think "his/her English is great...but a native speaker might have put it slightly differently"? Or do people who immigrate to the UK/US and then speak English every day for a decade or so normally sound just like native speakers do (except for the accent)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fairyfountain Senior Member Zimbabwe Joined 6128 days ago 254 posts - 248 votes 5 sounds | Message 2 of 23 27 June 2009 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I think anyone can sound totally native in any language. You don't need to go to the country to achieve such a goal. That said, lots of immigrants just don't care and speak pidgin English instead. Being forced to speak English rightaway = making mistakes = said mistakes ingrained. Anyway, you do the math.
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| GuardianJY Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5685 days ago 74 posts - 72 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Italian, Swedish, French | Message 3 of 23 27 June 2009 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | ||
I think that it is a bad way to learn the written form of the language. As for pronunciation, idioms, etc I would believe it would be a good way. Most of the foreigners I know just didn't dive into it. They studied the language for a while, then moved here. They're fine. However, I also know some people that just came here without knowing the language at all. They're struggling, and make many mistakes. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chloem14 Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5690 days ago 21 posts - 23 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Latin | Message 4 of 23 27 June 2009 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think this depends on how much people intergrate into the English speaking community. My area of the UK has absorbed a lot of Eastern European immigration, which has led to areas where its possible to get by speaking primarily that language, or at least to socialise, shop, and often work depending on their field. For those living in these areas and not making a consious effort, there are often noticable deficiencies in their English, despite living here for a reasonably long time.
On the other hand, I have several close teenage friends who are fairly recent immigrants, who through having entered the UK school system, making friends with native speakers, using native TV/books/DVDs/music for entertainment and just generally taking advantage of their immersion in the language, speak in many ways better English than the massacred variety spoken by some of my peer group =D This might be partially because of their age, but it's been the same with their parents and older siblings - so no, I do think its entirely possible to speak natively with imersion. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheBiscuit Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5923 days ago 532 posts - 619 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Italian Studies: German, Croatian | Message 5 of 23 27 June 2009 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, and necessity. I noticed when I taught English in London that most foreigners could get by in their own language due to the sheer size of the foreign community there. If you live, work and socialise with Brazilians for example, you really only need tourist level English. The ones that learn English to a high level actually avoid their own nationality or have some kind of necessity to speak good English. Necessity is the best teacher as far as immersion is concerned, that and a lot of motivation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| crackpot Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6301 days ago 144 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 23 28 June 2009 at 12:48am | IP Logged | ||
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I've said this before and got jumped on for it but here goes...I have never known an immigrant who moved to Canada as an adult or as a teenager that speaks perfect English. Some have come very close but none speak perfectly.
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| FrenchLanguage Senior Member Germany Joined 5736 days ago 122 posts - 135 votes | Message 7 of 23 28 June 2009 at 12:51am | IP Logged | ||
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Interesting crackpot. And I think you shouldnt be jumped for it. After all, I guess many people would agree that the v ast majority of immigrants who learned English at a later age would not be able to achieve a completely native-like accent and saying it out loud isnt a problem. Why would observing/saying the same thing about grammatical (or whatever) nuances be a worse thing to say out loud (or well type).
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| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6372 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 8 of 23 28 June 2009 at 11:32am | IP Logged | ||
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Kids usually end up sounding like native speakers to me. I met a Russian girl who was
about 15 and she came here when she was 12 and she sounded perfectly native in English and spoke and understood all the nuances. I met a twenty-something year old Belgian guy - native in French - who came over when he was about 13 and he spoke like an Australian. I think it depends on the age, the persons natural abilities, how much the person felt compelled to sound native and their starting native language. When people immigrate at ages above 16 they tend to keep an accent but they usually will learn the nuances and so on. But it depends on their efforts and how long they've been here. Some people forever speak with a terrible accent and can barely communicate after 20 years. I met a Lithuanian who was in his 80s who could barely speak English to me. His wife spoke German natively, excellent slightly accented English and Lithuanian. I spoke to her in German to practice. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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