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Regional Spanish Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Vilcxjo Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 5639 days ago 21 posts - 29 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto, French Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Latin, Ancient Greek, Modern Hebrew, Russian, German, Biblical Hebrew | Message 9 of 24 05 July 2009 at 1:45am | IP Logged | ||
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Use of an "s" sound for z and c by some speakers where others would use a "th" sound is called "seseo" as opposed to "ceceo". (Note: different authors in linguistics have slight varying definitions for these terms.)
"seseo" predominates in Latin American Spanish, while "ceceo" tends to predominate in the Central and Northern parts of Spain. It's very clear that this difference in "accent" is also a sociological distinction. In Madrid, in particular, I've noticed people treating "seseo" pronouncers with visible disdain. For example, tour guides in museums will visibly snub and/or ignore people using the "seseo" pronunciation. I first learned Spanish with the "seseo", but after a week or so in Madrid switched to "ceceo" as a matter of "protective coloration." Edited by Vilcxjo on 05 July 2009 at 1:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| anamsc Triglot Senior Member Andorra Joined 6203 days ago 296 posts - 382 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Written), French | Message 10 of 24 05 July 2009 at 2:17am | IP Logged | ||
Sorry to nitpick, but what people in central/northern Spain do is not "ceceo" (at least not in any context I've ever heard), but "distinción". Ceceo is something completely different, when s as well as z and c are pronounced similar to the English "th". It's found only in some small parts of Andalucia and Latim America. Sorry again, it's just that I'm under the impression that many people who do distinción may be mildly insulted if you said que cecean :). (By the way, sorry for writing "th" to represent the voiceless interdental fricative, I know they're not exactly the same thing and everything, but I can't type IPA on this computer and I think this is a close enough approximation to be understood. I know this came up in another thread!) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vilcxjo Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 5639 days ago 21 posts - 29 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto, French Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Latin, Ancient Greek, Modern Hebrew, Russian, German, Biblical Hebrew | Message 11 of 24 05 July 2009 at 4:11am | IP Logged | ||
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Different authors use slightly different definitions for seseo and ceceo. The triple seseo-ceceo-distincio'n is used by some. For these authors seseo and ceceo denote a uniform usage for the c and z. In this case distincio'n is used when both "s" and "th" sounds occur in speech, of course with different phonological settings. Other authors don't use the term distincio'n and include "mixed" usages in the terms seseo and ceceo. Since there is some variation in the academic use of these terms, I included the parenthetical disclaimer to avoid a debate over terminology. Apparently it didn't work.
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| Rmss Triglot Senior Member Spain spanish-only.coRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6564 days ago 234 posts - 248 votes 3 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, English, Spanish Studies: Portuguese | Message 12 of 24 05 July 2009 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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So far I know there's a standard definition for both ceceo and seseo. Ceceo looks like seseo with the difference that the ci/ce, s and z are pronounced as θ.
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| Draemr72 Newbie Ireland Joined 5664 days ago 7 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 13 of 24 05 July 2009 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you for indulging my curiosity (and ignorance).
I feel I should point out however that when I say 'lisp,' I'm referring to the difference in pronunciation and I only use this term because that is the term that was used in my book. I'm aware Castillian is not a speech impediment. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vilcxjo Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 5639 days ago 21 posts - 29 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Esperanto, French Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Latin, Ancient Greek, Modern Hebrew, Russian, German, Biblical Hebrew | Message 14 of 24 06 July 2009 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Really, "standard" is a rather loaded word. It carries a lot of cultural and subjective baggage with it. After all, what is "standard" in Madrid need not be so in Mexico City! Or what is "standard" in Madrid in 2009 may not have been "standard" in 1999! Just by reading articles on Spanish phonology in the journal "Hispania", for example, or by comparing monographs on Spanish phonology, you can easily observe that different scholars use the terms "seseo" and "ceceo" in somewhat different ways. Part of this comes from the various ways people use to classify the different types of "s" in Spanish pronunciation. In any case, vive la diffe'rence! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 24 09 July 2009 at 11:17am | IP Logged | ||
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It seems ceceo, seseo and ceseo - I never heard of this last one - are not very practical to use, as they are easily misunderstood.
I guess this can be particularly dodgy with Latin Americans as they will pronounce the words ceceo and seseo exactly the same. I'll make a note for myself to always include an explanation when I use any of these in the future. Edited by Hencke on 09 July 2009 at 11:22am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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