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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| will72694 Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5704 days ago 59 posts - 60 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 9 04 July 2009 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What is the similarity between the Sami languages and Finnish? Are they mutually intelligible or distantly related?
I'd imagine because of the geographic situation that the Sami languages would be closer to Finnish than say, Hungarian, but I do not know. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 9 04 July 2009 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It is definitely closer than Hungarian, but they are not mutually intelligible. At most you can pick up half a word here and there.
I fooled around a little with a basic on-line Sami course some time ago, and when you look more closely at the words and structures and think about them a little, then you recognise some more similarities, but they are still rather distant. So, knowing Finnish you get almost nothing for free, but there is a sizeable discount on effort and difficulty, if you actually decide to learn it. How much can an English-speaker understand if he listens intently to German ? Probably a word here and there. Based on the very limited experience I had with that course, it feels like roughly the same distance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 3 of 9 04 July 2009 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I read that, although related, Finnish and Sami separated long ago - perhaps thousands of years ago.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 9 04 July 2009 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Let's be a bit concrete here. I have found a page in Wikipedia with a smackering of Matthew 12 in several Northern Sami transcriptions, and from Lexilogos I have taken the corresponding Hungarian, Estonian and Finnish verses - then you can compare yourself.
English, King James' Bible At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. Hungarian: Abban az idõben a vetéseken át haladt Jézus szombatnapon; tanítványai pedig megéheztek, és kezdték a kalászokat tépni és enni. Látván pedig ezt a farizeusok, mondának néki: Ímé a te tanítványaid azt cselekszik, a mit nem szabad szombatnapon cselekedni. Estonian: Sel ajal läks Jeesus viljast läbi hingamispäeval. Aga Tema jüngritel oli nälg ja nad hakkasid päid katkuma ja sööma. Kui variserid seda nägid, ütlesid nad Temale: „Vaata, Sinu jüngrid teevad, mida ei sünni teha hingamispäeval!” Finnish 1972: Niihin aikoihin Jeesus kerran kulki sapattina viljapellon laitaa. Hänen opetuslastensa tuli nälkä, ja he alkoivat katkoa tähkäpäitä ja syödä. Fariseukset näkivät sen ja sanoivat Jeesukselle: "Katso nyt, opetuslapsesi tekevät sellaista, mitä sapattina ei ole lupa tehdä." Finnish 1776: Siihen aikaan kävi Jesus sabbatina laihoin lävitse; niin hänen opetuslapsensa isosivat, ja rupesivat tähkäpäitä noukkimaan ja syömään. Mutta kuin Pharisealaiset sen näkivät, sanoivat he hänelle: katso, sinun opetuslapses tekevät sitä, mitä ei sovi sabbatina tehdä. Northern Sami, 1979 Dan áiggi Jesus lei oktii vázzimin gordnebealdduid čađa sábbáhin. Su máhttájeaddjit ledje nelgon ja čoaggigohte gordneoivviid ja borre. Farisealaččat oidne dán ja dadje sutnje: «Geahča! Du máhttájeaddjit dahket dan mii ii leat lobálaš sábbáhin!» Northern Sami, Stockfleth 1840 Damanaga aige de Jesus bældo čađa vagjoli sabbaten; mutto su mattajægjek bårrastuvvamen legje, ja gårne åivid si gasskegåtte, ja bårragåtte. Mutto go pharisæalaǯak dam oaidne, de si celkke sunji: gæč, du mattajegjidak dakkek, mi i læk låvalaš dakkat sabbaten. I don't understand any of these languages, and I have a slight worrying feeling that the translations aren't exactly hyperliteral - but at least you can see with your own eyes what people are talking about. Edited by Iversen on 04 July 2009 at 6:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5847 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 9 04 July 2009 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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As I see it, Sami language seems to be an agglutinative language like Hungarian, Finnish and Turkish. Thanks for the language examples, Iversen. I have never seen Sami language before.
Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 9 04 July 2009 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Good idea. I have identified below the Sami words I think I recognise (though I might be wrong), based on knowing Finnish. I didn't bother with the words for "Sabbath" which will obviously be a cognate in most languages anyway. I didn't bother with the Estonian text either. There are quite a few more cognates and similarities there.
(*) I would not have recognised "borre" otherwise, but it was in the on-line course that I played around with a little bit and afaiu it means "eat". It looks like it could be related to Finnish "purra" = bite. (**) After looking again many times, and it's far-fetched, but I am beginning to think that "dahket" might be related to "tekevät" = (they) do. (***) And after looking even more, I am begniining to see a similarity between "bealdduid" and Finnish "pelto" = (cultivated) field. It's a possibility, but very vague.
That's the trouble with an experiment like this. Without knowing one of the two languagens being compared you can maybe get a small inkling, especially if they are very close: most people could probably identify many similarities between Danish and Swedish at a glance even without knowing them. But for languages further apart you'd miss many of the cognates. Edited by Hencke on 04 July 2009 at 10:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 9 04 July 2009 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't know whether these programs can be seen anywhere on the internet, but SVT2 has news (with undertitles) in both Sami and Finnish, called Uttiset and Oddasat, - at least these words look like cognates.
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| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 9 05 July 2009 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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"Uutiset" in Finnish, but yes, I agree that the Sami word "Oddasat" appears related when you see them both side by side.
However, it's different enough that I don't think I could have recognised the similarity and guessed the meaning of "Oddasat" on its own. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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