Mandarin pronunciation rules/reality (Questions About Your Target Languages) Language Learning Forum

Mandarin pronunciation rules/reality
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Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages

12 messages over 2 pages: 1 2

hagen
Triglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 6962 days ago
171 posts - 179 votes

6 sounds
Speaks: German*, English, Mandarin
Studies: Korean

Message 9 of 12

13 December 2005 at 1:03pm | IP Logged

solidsnake wrote:

isnt there a better way to phrase that statement, grammatically?

It should be the most natural way. Duration is usually placed like this in a verb-object compound. Compare "wo kan le yi ge xiaoshi de dianshi" (I looked TV for one hour) or "wo zou le ban ge xiaoshi de lu" (I walked for half an hour).

Look at how the time expression stays in place when you add an object:

"wo xuele 3 nian le." (I've been studying for 3 years.)
"wo xuele 3 nian de zhongwen." (I've studied Chinese for 3 years.)

solidsnake wrote:

"wo shi san shi nian chou de yan"

You probably don't want to say that. It means something like "I am a cigarette that has been smoked for 30 years." ;-)

solidsnake wrote:

The way its phrased now, semantically implies that you smoked a thirty year old cigarette.

It might theoretically be ambiguous, but it's the common construction.

solidsnake wrote:

you can even say "wo chou le yan san shi nian le."

solidsnake
Diglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 7043 days ago
469 posts - 488 votes

Speaks: English*, Mandarin

Message 10 of 12

13 December 2005 at 3:26pm | IP Logged

hagen wrote:

solidsnake wrote:

isnt there a better way to phrase
that statement, grammatically?

It should be the most natural way. Duration is usually placed like this in a
verb-object compound. Compare "wo kan le yi ge xiaoshi de dianshi" (I
looked TV for one hour) or "wo zou le ban ge xiaoshi de lu" (I walked for
half an hour).

Look at how the time expression stays in place when you add an object:

"wo xuele 3 nian le." (I've been studying for 3 years.)
"wo xuele 3 nian de zhongwen." (I've studied Chinese for 3 years.)

you're totally right, Im wrong. That's why i logged back on here right
now- to correct my own post after consulting the grammar book.

solidsnake wrote:

"wo shi san shi nian chou de yan"

You probably don't want to say that. It means something like "I am a
cigarette that has been smoked for 30 years." ;-) [/QUOTE]

the shi..de in here, is supposed to denote the shi..de structure used
when
emphasizing time/method aspects of past tense occurences. That does
apply to DURATION as well, right? (Please answer this, it will totally clarify
and add new light to the use of this particular structure for me.)

solidsnake wrote:

The way its phrased now, semantically implies that
you smoked a thirty year old cigarette.

It might theoretically be ambiguous, but it's the common construction. [/
QUOTE]

once again i'm totally wrong. To say "I smoked a thirty year old
cigarette"
you would have to add a quantifier like " Wo chou le yi zhi san shi nian de
yan"

solidsnake wrote:

you can even say "wo chou le yan san shi nian le."

I don't think so. I think the only (somewhat cumbersome) alternative
would be "wo chou yan chou le san shi nian.", i.e. repeating the verb of
the verb-object compound.

Of course I'm open to corrections if I'm wrong.
[/QUOTE]

this one im still not sure about..i think if you moved the yan (object) to
topic position as in

(Guanyu) yan, wo chou le san shi nian le" (the second le being new
situation le and translates to 30 years and counting... or still smokin')

wow, i just realized that your original (correct :) ) version is the same as
topic-description structure, only with the topic implied and hence
omitted.

This is precisely why I log on to message boards.

Thanks again for help, and to the original poster for making me think
about this and hence clarifying it further.

Edited by solidsnake on 13 December 2005 at 3:31pm
1 person has voted this message useful

hagen
Triglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 6962 days ago
171 posts - 179 votes

6 sounds
Speaks: German*, English, Mandarin
Studies: Korean

Message 11 of 12

13 December 2005 at 3:42pm | IP Logged

solidsnake wrote:

hagen wrote:

solidsnake wrote:

"wo shi san shi nian chou de yan"

You probably don't want to say that. It means something like "I am a cigarette that has been smoked for 30 years." ;-)

the shi..de in here, is supposed to denote the shi..de structure used when emphasizing time/method aspects of past tense occurences. That does apply to DURATION as well, right? (Please answer this, it will totally clarify and add new light to the use of this particular structure for me.)

In the "shi..de" construction, the "de" has to go to the end of the sentence:

"Wo shi sanshi nian chou yan de."
(literally: I'm a "30 years having smoked cigarettes"-one.)

Chinese grammar isn't very hard, but still tricky at some points, especially since there's (apparently) no standardized description of it. Fortunately you can learn most things by listening and talking.

1 person has voted this message useful

solidsnake
Diglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 7043 days ago
469 posts - 488 votes

Speaks: English*, Mandarin

Message 12 of 12

13 December 2005 at 4:12pm | IP Logged

hagen wrote:

solidsnake wrote:

hagen wrote:

solidsnake wrote:

"wo shi san shi nian chou de yan"

You probably don't want to say that. It means something like "I am a
cigarette that has been smoked for 30 years." ;-)

the shi..de in here, is supposed to denote the shi..de structure used when
emphasizing time/method aspects of past tense occurences. That does
apply to DURATION as well, right? (Please answer this, it will totally clarify
and add new light to the use of this particular structure for me.)

In the "shi..de" construction, the "de" has to go to the end of the
sentence:

"Wo shi sanshi nian chou yan de."
(literally: I'm a "30 years having smoked cigarettes"-one.)

Chinese grammar isn't very hard, but still tricky at some points, especially
since there's (apparently) no standardized description of it. Fortunately
you can learn most things by listening and talking.

ok, according to the grammar book, this is bad (re: ambiguous) grammar.
de in shi..de structures more often than not occur immediately after the
verb preceeding its accompanying object.

ex: "wo shi zai Beijing xue de Zhongwen." (i studied chinese in Beijing)

if you place the de after the object

"wo shi zai Beijing xue Zhongwen de."

the meaning could be construed as "I am the person who studied
Chinese in Beijing." where ren is implied and omitted after de.

The question still remains for anyone out there to answer. I know shi..de
structures apply to past-tense situations emphasizing whom, where,
when and how questions---- but does it also apply to "how long"
(durational) questions as well????

thanks again hagan for your help.

1 person has voted this message useful

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