Adjective Order of the Romance Languages (Questions About Your Target Languages) Language Learning Forum

Adjective Order of the Romance Languages
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Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages

czech
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United States
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Studies: English*

Message 1 of 7

25 April 2005 at 9:08am | IP Logged

In English, we have a proper adjective order. We can't just spill them in randomly in front of a noun.

For example: the big brown house.
We can't say: the brown big house.

And if we add another adjective, we can slip it in anywhere.

The wet big brown house.
The big wet brown house.
The big brown wet house.

What is the specified order in the romance languages?
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administrator
Hexaglot
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Switzerland
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Message 2 of 7

25 April 2005 at 9:54am | IP Logged

In French:

La grande maison brune.
La grande maison brune mouill�e.

You could not use a different order in French.

I moved this to the Beginner forum.
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heartburn
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 3 of 7

25 April 2005 at 1:47pm | IP Logged

If you are discussing a bunch of brown houses and you want to indicate the big one, you'd say "the big brown house." If you're discussing a bunch of big houses and you want to point out the brown one, it would be fine to say "the brown big house." If you're talking about a bunch of houses of all different sizes and colors "the brown big house" would definitely raise a few eyebrows but I don't think it would be grammatically wrong. I think it's a question of common usage.

Edited by heartburn on 26 April 2005 at 1:09am
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dysphonia
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Message 4 of 7

25 April 2005 at 6:16pm | IP Logged

In Spanish it also depends on what adjective you are using as certain
adjectives actually can be before or after the noun but change their
meaning, sometimes subtley, sometimes quite significantly (they can turn
what you are saying into an insult for example) eg

el pobre hombre - the unfortunate man
el hombre pobre - the penniless man
una gran casa - a great house
una casa grande - a big house
agua pura - pure water (uncontaminated)
pura agua - merely water
el viejo presidente - the long-standing/old president
el president viejo - the elderly president
mi antigua novia - my former girlfriend
mi novia antigua - my ancient girlfriend
una media botella (de vino) - half a bottle (of wine)
una botella media (de vino) - an average bottle (of wine)
mi novia hermosa - my beautiful girlfriend - BUT specifically out of my
many girlfriends, the good-looking one
mi hermosa novia - my beautiful girlfriend - my girlfriend who is
beautiful
etc etc

Edited by dysphonia on 25 April 2005 at 6:23pm
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heartburn
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 5 of 7

25 April 2005 at 8:20pm | IP Logged

Dysphonia, thank you! You just answered a question for me before it even fully formed in my mind. I've always noticed that they were all correct. I only had a feeling that they all meant something different.
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hokusai77
Triglot
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Italy
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Message 6 of 7

05 December 2005 at 3:36am | IP Logged

dysphonia wrote:

The same applies to French and Italian.
For example:

in Italian

un pover'uomo = an unfortunate man
un uomo povero = a penniless man
acqua pura = pure water
pura acqua = just water
una gran donna = an important woman
una donna grande = a big woman

Edited by hokusai77 on 05 December 2005 at 3:40am
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Darobat
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Message 7 of 7

05 December 2005 at 5:45pm | IP Logged

The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, by David Crystal, wrote:

ADJECTIVE ZONES

Examples such as the following suggest that there are four main 'zones' within the pre-modifying section of a noun phrase, here labelled I, II, III and IV.

I've got the same big red garden chairs as you.
-----------------I----II--III----IV-------------------

IV Words which are usually nouns, or closely related to nouns, are placed next to the head. They include nationality adjectives (American, Gothic), noun-like adjectives which mean 'involving' or 'relating to' (medical, social), and straightforward nouns (tourism brochure, Lancashire factory). Thus we say:

an old Lancashire factory not *a Lancashire old factory
a bright medical student not *a medical bright student

III Participles and colour adjectives are placed immediately in front of any in zone IV: missing, deserted, retired, stolden, red, green. Thus we say:

an old red suit not *a red old suit
the red tourism brochures not *the tourism red brochures

I Adjectives with an absolute or intensifying meaning come first in the sequence, immediately after the determiner and its satellites: same, certain, entire, sheer, definite, perfect, superb. Thus we say:

the entire American army not *the American entire army
the perfect red suit not *the red perfect suit

II All other adjectives (the vast majority in the language) occur in this zone: big, slow, angry, helpful, and all this in the advertising caption above [Why do you think we make Nuttall's Mintoes such a devilishly smooth cool creamy minty chewy round slow velvety fresh clean solid buttery taste?] Thus we say:

a superb old house not *an old superb house (with a zone I item)
an old stolen car not *a stolen old car (with a zone III item)
an old social disease not *a social old disease (with a zone IV item)

There are also signs of 'zones within zones'. For example, we tend to say a beautiful new dress not a new beautiful dress, suggesting tht evaluative adjectives in zone II precede other kinds of adjectives there. We also tend to say a recognizable zig-zag pattern no a zig-zag recognisable pattern, suggesting that more abstract adjectives precede more concrete ones. But, as the word 'tend' suggests, the rules are not hard and fast.

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