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French "Personne" for nobody | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| mishels Diglot Newbie Israel Joined 5786 days ago 39 posts - 39 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew*, English Studies: German, French | Message 1 of 6 13 May 2009 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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In the Michel Thomas course, I got this:
"Personne a telephoner" meaning no one has called. Now in the pimsleur course they stress the N making me thing that it should really be: "Personne n'a telephoner" (using the ne in a contraction because of tha vowel in the next word). Which one is the correct one? The first one seems logical but I know that Michel try to teach the spoken language and not really the proper form. If the second one is the correct one, why isn't there a "pas" after the "n'a"? Like in: Elle n'a pas telephoner, il n'a pas telephoner? Thanks in advance for any answers, Mishel. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tjw Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6142 days ago 53 posts - 55 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French, Persian | Message 2 of 6 13 May 2009 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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The correct way is to say it is:
"personne n'a téléphoné". 'Pas' is only used in certain (albeit the most common) negative constructions. Compare it to 'not' in English. One would not say 'nobody has not phoned' (when meaning 'nobody has phoned'), or 'I have never not done it' (when meaning 'I have never done it'). It is the same in French. The 'personne' (or the 'jamais', or the 'rien', or the 'aucun(e)'... etc etc) make the 'pas' redundant, just as 'nobody' makes the 'not' redundant in English. The 'personne' has already made the construction into a negative one, so there is no need for the 'pas', it has no significance. This holds true even when the negative word (in this case 'personne') is the subject of the sentence (as in 'personne n'a téléphoné). Edited by tjw on 13 May 2009 at 8:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SablesduTemps Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5894 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 3 of 6 14 May 2009 at 12:47am | IP Logged | ||
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Personne ne= Nobody
Rien ne= Nothing. You probably know this, but I find it easier to remember as one in a group like that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mishels Diglot Newbie Israel Joined 5786 days ago 39 posts - 39 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew*, English Studies: German, French | Message 4 of 6 14 May 2009 at 7:54am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the clarification tjw and SablesduTemps.
I think what confused me, like you suspected tjw, is that the negative word was the subject. So if I want to say 'Nothing is easy for me' it would be: Rien n'est facile pour moi? Thanks, Mishel. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mishels Diglot Newbie Israel Joined 5786 days ago 39 posts - 39 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew*, English Studies: German, French | Message 5 of 6 14 May 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is a nice article in About.com for this issue I was able to find:
http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa061000.htm The confusion is cleared, thanks again, Mishel. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Grammaticus Hexaglot Newbie Norway Joined 5756 days ago 36 posts - 40 votes Speaks: FrenchC2, Norwegian*, EnglishC2, GermanC2, Italian, Russian | Message 6 of 6 19 June 2009 at 12:53am | IP Logged | ||
"Personne n'a telephoné" is the correct written form. Spoken quickly, it becomes impossible to distinguish from "personne a telephoné". 1 person has voted this message useful |
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