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And if English weren’t so global? | ||
Tags: Language Importance | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6893 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 39 16 June 2009 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sorry, but it seems the articles quoted (except one where the article apparently has been removed) actually disprove your claim "by no means spoken by the majority of Chinese". Diving into the stories behind those links it turns out that by "Only HALF" they are referring to a statistical result of 53 per cent. And 53 per cent still counts as a majority, even if it is a small one. Another thing to remember in this context is that among the people who are literate the ability to communicate in written mandarin will be almost total, since the other Chinese languages (I prefer to call them languages rather than dialects) are mostly written in the same way, or very similar to mandarin. And currently Mandarin is advancing its position by leaps and bounds, for better or for worse, not least due to the concentrated efforts of the central government to impose it. In this discussion we are speculating about how things might evolve maybe ten or twenty years, or more, down the road. In that kind of timeframe there is not likely to be any doubt at all about its being a majority language in China. EDIT: I just couldn't resist commenting on some of these facts, because they are interesting. I agree that Mandarin dethroning English as a global language feels extremely unlikely. It just seems too hard to learn for westerners, and I know it first hand as I am one of the few misguided but enthusiastic souls who are desperately trying to do just that. Edited by Hencke on 16 June 2009 at 10:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5799 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 35 of 39 16 June 2009 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This is all very interesting but I think the point was not about how many people speak Mandarin. Rather it's that Mandarin is unlikely to dethrone English any time soon.
jbbar Edited by jbbar on 16 June 2009 at 10:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 36 of 39 16 June 2009 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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No - it's only in Singapore. Singapore is more international than Hong Kong and it feels that way too. Only about 2/3 of the population is Chinese, the rest are Malay, Indian or something else. So there is a need for a language that all the groups can communicate in - this is English.
It's almost a joke with Singapore Chinese that they are rubbish at Chinese and don't want to study it. School kids usually speak a mix of English and something else between them, sometimes only English. Also different groups and suburbs speak different Chinese dialects (Hokkien, Wu plus Mandarin-ish). Gov't is trying to get everybody to speak Mandarin instead, but very few of the Chinese ppl speak Mandarin at home, so Mandarin is like a almost a foreign language to them if I understood it right (was only a teen when I lived there). In Singapore most people you run into speak good or decent English - or Singlish. Singlish is funny because it is like English with a Chinese speech pattern and accent. It's a bit silly really and I think Gov't is trying to stop it too. They always have campaigns on TV and magazines "Speak proper English!!!" "Speak Mandarin, not dialect" etc... In Hong Kong plenty of people cannot speak English AT ALL or only speak a few words. In Singapore practically all but recent immigrants can speak it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5799 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 37 of 39 16 June 2009 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Interesting, thanks for the response! I've seen some documentaries about Singapore. I knew English was an official language but I was really amazed at how good all these people with different ethnic backgrounds spoke English. I believe most people of Indian extraction speak Tamil, and about 30 percent or so speak English in Hong Kong.
Btw, do you have any info on Malaysian English? It still has some sort of status in Malaysia although it's not an official language anymore. Do they tend to be as good at English in, say, Kuala Lumpur, as they are in Singapore? Sorry if this is rather off-topic. jbbar 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 38 of 39 16 June 2009 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In Kuala Lumpur (aka "KL") they speak English, but not quite as consistently as Singapore. They have the benefit of having one language which most people speak, so knowing English is not quite so critical.
Outside the bigger cities English is not always spoken but in Penang and Johor where tourists go, English is spoken. Here are two Malaysian girls that my step-sister knows, speaking English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oIl7k1wv90 They are a little bit better than average, and there is a class difference and country vs city difference. They are making fun of Indians or Philipino migrant workers with stronger accents. Although you don't hear so much English in the streets in Malaysia, I've never had any troubles whatever. Saying that, I've only been in the areas that Singaporeans go on short breaks or day-trips to. Plus KL, once. Malaysia would like the same success as Singapore has had (one of the top richest countries in the world!) and they try to emulate a lot of what Singapore has done, but the conditions are a bit different. It's a bigger country and most Malays are Muslims whereas Singapore is essentially Buddhist/Christian and Islam and Hindusim are minority. There have been some conflicts between Chinese and Malays because the Chinese have a disproportionate amount of influence. Perhaps somebody on the forum can explain more about Malaysia - I don't know too much about it. I THINK that Malaysia is a democracy (but I can't swear on it) whereas Singapore is not really a democracy, to be honest. There are some quite strict limitations anyway. But really, no-one cares. If ever there was an example of Plato's "good dictator" and "good dictatorship" Singapore and Lee Kwan Yew qualifies. People who diss Singapore drive me crazy, it's the loveliest country! If they need to pee on the street or spit chewing gum they should stay in their own country. Some S'pore classic National Day songs (new one every year) un-escapeable... Count on me, Singapore! My Island Home Stand up for Singapore! One People, One Nation, One Singapore! Edited by cordelia0507 on 17 June 2009 at 2:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jbbar Senior Member Belgium Joined 5799 days ago 192 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English | Message 39 of 39 17 June 2009 at 12:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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English may have different varieties but it seems that girls are the same everywhere, haha. Thanks a lot for the response, I appreciate it. I'm interested in all varieties of English but I'm not familiar with the English spoken in that part of the world at all.
I must admit I like Singapore quite a lot myself as well, it seems the people are very industrious and I like that. The infrastructure of the city is also amazing. I think Malaysia is relatively democratic but I'm aware that there are some issues with freedom of religion though. I also think that Singapore is rather autocratic. Some have said it is a modern meritocracy. However, I'm afraid I don't know enough about their politics to comment. It's too off-topic anyway.
LOL, spot on! jbbar 1 person has voted this message useful |
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