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Incomplete Passive Voice (Spanish) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5980 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes  Speaks: Spanish* | Message 9 of 15 22 June 2009 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Careful there, you have a number of ways to say to lose weight, like perder peso, bajar de peso, adelgazar, but as far as I know, neither of them is used pronominally. So, it is adelgazar, not adelgazarse.
It's not usted, it's just that impersonal sentences in Spanish go in the third person singular, like usted. An impersonal sentence is not necessary here anyway. Edited by Javi on 22 June 2009 at 6:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5980 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 10 of 15 22 June 2009 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You should remove se vende casa from that list, and possibly no se permite (no se permiten perros), as they are passive sentences (pasiva refleja con se) Edited by Javi on 22 June 2009 at 6:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5980 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 11 of 15 22 June 2009 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Se puede hacer así. Cheers. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| charlmartell Super Polyglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6243 days ago 286 posts - 298 votes Speaks: French, English, German, Luxembourgish*, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Dutch, Italian, Latin, Ancient Greek Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 12 of 15 22 June 2009 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Of course they are passive in meaning, that's why this construction is called pasiva refleja, passive meaning expressed by means of the reflexive "se" + active form. "no se permite" is usually followed by an infinitive and therefore is definitely an impersonal construction. I would have used "no se admiten perros" but, like in English "dogs not allowed", no se "permiten" perros would in fact be, as you say, a pasiva refleja. And I agree, here the structure wouldn't be impersonal but active with passive meaning. As for "se vende/n casa/s", that is in fact a pasiva refleja. So I'm agreed, remove "se vende casa" from my list. Edited by charlmartell on 22 June 2009 at 8:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 13 of 15 22 June 2009 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Oops. I got a bit fixated on the English "They say" and didn't read it properly, assuming it was like "dicen" rather than "se dice". Very silly mistake.
That´s a matter of terminology. The books I've been learning from call it "impersonal" and the word "pasivo/a" doesn't come into the name at all. When I've taught Spaniards about the passive in English, some of them have been quite firm in telling me that "se permite" is not passive, and that the passive is es permitodo. People use different words 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| charlmartell Super Polyglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6243 days ago 286 posts - 298 votes Speaks: French, English, German, Luxembourgish*, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Dutch, Italian, Latin, Ancient Greek Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 14 of 15 23 June 2009 at 9:11am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Very silly mistake indeed. But then, if you were thinking of "they", why did you say "usted"? As you said quite clearly:
Now why did you immediately assume, as so often, that the answer sheet Kaylalyak was given was wrong? His book is obviously dealing with American Spanish, cf. manejar instead of conducir, so maybe they use structures we wouldn't use over here. That's why I tried to come up with a justification for the "te". It was maybe a bit far-fetched and, as I said, I personally would have used a different construction altogether. But who are we to lay down the rules for them? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| TheBiscuit Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5922 days ago 532 posts - 619 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Italian Studies: German, Croatian | Message 15 of 15 23 June 2009 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
"Si se maneja como un loco, te darán una multa." Thinking about it, it does look a bit strange. I think what the book was trying to do (albeit in a strange way) was get the student away from using the tú to say you in general, which you can do although it sounds a bit direct. In Mexican Spanish you'd probably hear something like: si uno maneja como loco, le dan una multa/le van a dar una multa/le van a multar etc. as uno is generally used more than the reflexive to avoid tú. The future tense is hardly used in speaking here so you'd hear the present or going to. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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