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Spanish reflexives with indirect objects | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 1 of 3 23 November 2005 at 10:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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The subject sounds very grammar centered, but I'm
hoping for an answer that doesn't involve much grammar. Are some of these sentences incorrect? Comiste el pan. Te lo comiste. Te comiste el pan. Lo comiste. From listening to FSI unit 26, I'm thinking the first two are okay, and the last two are not how a native would express, "You ate the bread", or "You ate it". At first I was a little puzzled by why "Te" would be used in the second sentence. After reading the explanations in the FSI book - which were written by a linguist - I'm thinking the rule might be stated, "if you use an indirect object, like "lo" for "el pan"; then verbs like comer and beber get a reflexive pronoun that matches the one who is eating or drinking. I'm hoping for a more general rule that doesn't involve too many grammatical terms. For instance, the next two sentences use a verb that FSI hasn't used. Are they correct? El conduce el coche. El se lo conduce. This has been a bit confusing. I originally thought of reflexives only in the sense of "he washes himself", or "she looks at herself". Apparently they get more air play than that though. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 3 23 November 2005 at 11:55am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know how much help I can be, but......
The first sounds correct only if it's pronounced as a question, the next two sound OK and the last one sounds strange.
The first one sounds OK, the second one sounds strange ("se" is redundant). However, "¿tu llevas el coche al garaje?" = do you take the car to the garage? "¿tu te llevas el coche al trabajo?" = do you take the car to work? (for some reason, I can only think of questions!) [EDIT: I haven't actually been much help, have I? Sorry!] Edited by patuco on 23 November 2005 at 11:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7105 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 3 of 3 24 November 2005 at 2:57am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ah pronominal usage in Spanish.....right up there with the subjunctive in my book :¬).
Butt and Benjamin devote an entire chapter in their book to pronominal verbs and another chapter to the passive and impersonals as well. I read the pronominal chapter again last night attempting to find some clues as the shades of meaning involved here with the use of the pronominal form. I thought I had an inkling but now I've read Patuco's post I'm not so sure. Anyway here's what they had to say... B & B talked about its "curious use in emphasizing the totality of an act of consumption". An example: Como pizza = I eat pizza (no quantity specified) Me comí una pizza = I ate a (whole) pizza The latter usage being noted by them as "optional but preferred". I shall have to re-read the chapter (again!) to see if there's anything relating to interrogative phrases that differentiates them. Interestingly they noted parallels in colloquial Italian: mi sono mangiato una pizza - and some dialects of southern (but not standard) French: je me suis mangé une pizza Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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