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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Karakorum Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6568 days ago 201 posts - 232 votes  Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written)* Studies: French, German | Message 121 of 130 08 November 2007 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | ||
Do you have any book recommendations? I am more interested in understanding the issue from a more academic perspective. The only stuff I can find online either has a reactionary defensive Hindu air, or a very awkward neo-colonial western smell. I really like India and Indian culture(s). I think the way media deals with issues in a country of such size, population, and diversity is very unfair. Europeans have been slaughtering each other for centuries over differences that are infinitely smaller than the Indians have. I have to admit though, on the topic of the sound of Indian (Indo-Aryan and Dravidian alike) languages, I just can't appreciate their sound. The way the letter 'r' is pronounced and the whole feel of languages (some more than others) makes me feel it's like Persian spoken with a severe speech impairment. No offense intended, just a personal impression. I like Bollywood songs though, so I don't know what's up with that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6959 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 122 of 130 09 November 2007 at 4:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Xtremelingo You are offended by what I said about Indian Caste system but you are not offended about what I said about french,Germans etc. Why?
You said something not very nice about russians and you said that was a joke .....so you first don't say bad things .........otherwise you must espect reactions....it's part of the game! in Italy we say "If you seed wind then expect a storm" My nickname is Vilas .....must sound familiar to you....it's an Indian name. I have been in india long time and I saw people starving in the streets ...." I don't think thar West is better than India , maybe here bad things are better hidden...but arriving in Calcutta from a western country it's quite a shock man! Generally High Caste people is richer , some Dalit make money very rarely.. I saw them living in the garbage and begging and brahamins ,kshattryas,etc cannot even touch them .Maybe when some dalit become rich finds also a brahmin friend...money sometimes makes miracles...... Did you ever touch an Untouchable Mr.Xtremelingo? or it's too Xtreme for You? I said what I said because I saw it in Bombay,Poona, Goa etc... Namaste' Namaskar ! Bhagwan Apchà karà! God bless you1 Vilas 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7014 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 123 of 130 09 November 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Gentlemen, please return to the topic at hand and refrain from personal attacks and trading insults. If you insist on continuing, do so via PM or I will have to close this thread down.
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| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6286 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 124 of 130 09 November 2007 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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Vilas,
I am not offended by what you said about Germans or French, because what you said was no where in comparison to what you said about Indians. Also, I am biased, and naturally I am going to defend my own community. I will let the Germans and French handle themselves, there's plenty of them here to do that. The problem with your 'joke' is the myth you perpetuate about Indian people. You clearly do not know enough. There is poverty in India, no doubt. There's poverty in just about every country in the world. This is nothing new. But when television shows you a very microscopic view of India, from the lens of a famine-ridden state, and then people like yourselves turn the situation of one community as the story for the whole. The same is often done for Africa as well, they give you this narrow-minded picture of a bunch of malnutritioned starving kids, but rarely will they show you the beauty in Morrocco or South Africa. I come from a very healthy, wealthy and prosperous states in India. Per capita, there are more mansions there than anywhere else in the world. The average person there lives in a home that is 4000+ sq feet. This is why I find it amusing when talking about poverty in India, people like yourself are quick to point to the slums of Calcutta and Bombay. Very very narrow-minded understanding of India. A country like India could not see the explosive growth it has seen in the last 15-years if it were just for a whole bunch of begging chamars on the streets of Delhi. Generally, I would ignore this, only because I know and expect one day in your life you may come across an Indian that may give you a run for your money. And in life, often the best lessons learnt are through experience. Edited by xtremelingo on 09 November 2007 at 2:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6286 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 125 of 130 09 November 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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Karakorum and All,
At this moment, I do know not of any books off the top of my head. But I will keep an eye out for you. If you are interested in reading true-novel length stories, I do recommend "Taj - A story of Mughal India" by Timeri N. Murari. The story is focused on Mumtaz Mahal and Shah Jehan. It shows much of how Islam and the Persian Empire began to influence India. I recommend this as a MUST-READ for all NON-native Indians, particularly those that have an interest in the history of the Taj Mahal. The main reason why I like this book is that it gives you a very vivid account of how the Mughals arrived to India, and the importance of the Taj Mahal in India. It is funny at how many people, particularly Americans who don't bother doing their research, think that the Taj Mahal is a Temple or place of worship. To clear that up right now, it is a mausoleum, or if that's too fancy, basically a TOMB. Even in the movie (I think it was) Independance Day, they show Indian-Muslims people praying to the Taj Mahal when the meteor is about to hit the Earth. This is how ridiculous America's understanding of India really is. NOBODY prays to the Taj Mahal, it has NEVER been done, and never will. Because the TAJ is not a damn Mosque, Mandir, or Gurdwara. It is a TOMB. Also Muslims, don't pray with their hands closed, but more often with their hands open, whereas in the movie they are showing Muslims praying the other way around. So Karakorum, you are definitely right when you say the media has absolutely no clue. Man, how annoying it can be for us minorities to see these absurd and false depictions of us. As for bollywood songs and language. I really think it depends on who you hear it from and what accent they have. Indo-Aryan languages are those type that can sound really nice from people who speak it well and horrible from those that don't. Personally, I don't think many people would enjoy the music as much if it weren't for all the hot actresses. If they did, they would be actually buying and listening to the music as sold by the original singers, since most if not all of the actresses are simply lip-synching. i.e. Lata Mangeskar, although has a beautiful voice isn't exactly visually appealing. But many, don't even know who she is, yet she probably sings like 90% of all the songs in Bollywood Movies. Edited by xtremelingo on 09 November 2007 at 3:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6959 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 126 of 130 10 November 2007 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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XtremeLingo you said "I come from a very healthy, wealthy and prosperous states in India "
I am happy for you ! From which state of India are you from ? Paisawallahstan ? Are you a Brahmin or a Dalit ? Or maybe you are a rich Parsee of Malabar Hill in Bombay or a Jaina merchant ? or you belong to some Sikh family that are high officers in the Army? And what you think about the caste System and about the Pariah. Doyou find it amusing? And You said also " This is why I find it amusing when talking about poverty in India, people like yourself are quick to point to the slums " By the way look if you find amusing what an Indian site say about this problem "Even more than 50 years after independence from almost two centuries of British rule, large scale poverty remains the most shameful blot on the face of India. India still has the world’s largest number of poor people in a single country. Of its nearly 1 billion inhabitants, an estimated 350-400 million are below the poverty line, 75 per cent of them in the rural areas. More than 40 per cent of the population is illiterate, with women, tribal and scheduled castes particularly affected." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 127 of 130 10 November 2007 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just to cool tempers a bit, there is an objective measure of affluence, GDP per capita.
According to the 2005 figures India's GDP per capita was 2.5 to 3 times less than Mexico's, so claims that poverty is not widespread in India seem unlikely at the moment, even though the country has indeed been developing rapidly, and there is a not insubstantial middle class there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| xtremelingo Trilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6286 days ago 398 posts - 515 votes Speaks: English*, Hindi*, Punjabi* Studies: German, French, Arabic (Written) | Message 128 of 130 11 November 2007 at 12:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Vilas,
Anyhow, I am done with this. Sikh family, with army officers. My grandfather fought in WWII, in Italy and Germany. The British gave him quite the world-tour. Much of language-learning concepts, I have learned from him, as he gained fluency in over 15 languages since he had lived in many countries, some through study and others through very natural but attentive acquisition. I have learned many techniques diverse as the countries they come from, by people really concerned about communication - the military. Frankled,
It's nice to have Mexico next to the United States. Mexico's is doing pretty good for a non-first world country. Yes, but you also must understand per capita in context. The cost of living in India is ridiculously low. Virtually any decent North American that moves to India, can be living extremely well. So this is another consideration you must understand. Anyone that has visited India knows how cheap it is to be there once you are there. Edited by xtremelingo on 11 November 2007 at 12:18am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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