Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6669 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil
| Message 1 of 8 23 June 2007 at 11:29am | IP Logged |
Many languages are in danger of becoming extinct, many of them because younger generations choose to use the national language of the country instead. However, it seems that there are also some countries where the official language is endangered. Some examples (I'm not an expert, I just cite what I gather from the internet):
1) Belorussian: Official language of Belarus, but apparently it's becoming a patois, while Russian is taking over.
2) Filipino (official language of the Philippines) is often replaced by English, which seems to become a common language for official use. I once talked about this with a young Filipino and was astounded by his depreciation for his native language; he thought that English was far superior as a language.
Does anyone know more about these examples? Or can you think of others?
I know that in the Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark, there are many university programs where the teaching language is English (in Germany there are some too). Maybe this could be interpreted as a first step towards a degradation of the national languages to dialects you use with your family and friends, while English takes over their official functions?
Edited by Marc Frisch on 23 June 2007 at 11:30am
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lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6894 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian
| Message 2 of 8 23 June 2007 at 11:51am | IP Logged |
Marc Frisch wrote:
I know that in the Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark, there are many university programs where the teaching language is English (in Germany there are some too). Maybe this could be interpreted as a first step towards a degradation of the national languages to dialects you use with your family and friends, while English takes over their official functions? |
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In the case of the Netherlands, I doubt Dutch is going to be replaced by English (or any other language) any time soon. Maybe it's just me but I come across a lot of people each day who can barely manage the basics in English, let alone use it as their main language of communication. Some people do speak English fluently and most of the younger generation can understand it to some extent but the level of English fluency in the Netherlands is overstated (in my personal opinion). Dutch is still very much the national language, as it should be.
I think that many countries like the Netherlands and Denmark offer courses taught in English for mostly financial reasons. How many foreign people are going to learn Dutch or Danish just to attend a university course? Many universities make a lot of money through offering degree courses to foreign students (if they are non-EU they can certainly make a fortune!) so offering them in English is certainly a way to attract students, especially if they have a different culture to the typical Anglophone countries.
I've met people who chose to come to study in the Netherlands instead of the UK as they could not only do the course in English but also have a chance to learn about the Dutch language and culture on the side. :)
It also depends on the subject being studied. Subjects related to IT and engineering, for example, often require a good working knowledge of English simply because the course books and source material is only available in English. My boyfriend's engineering degree was taught mostly in Dutch but since most of the books were in English, proficiency in the English language was essential. I'd imagine that many universities and schools would prefer to reference English-language books and resources rather than pay to have everything translated...
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lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6417 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian
| Message 3 of 8 23 June 2007 at 12:13pm | IP Logged |
I agree with lady skywalker about English proficiency in the Netherlands being overstated. I was was talking to the international admissions counselor at The Hague University a week ago and she had a basic proficiency in English at best. Her accent was so strong that every other word was unintelligible. She wasn't an older dutch woman either, maybe late 20s-early 30s.
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Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French
| Message 4 of 8 23 June 2007 at 5:20pm | IP Logged |
The fourth official language of Switzerland is in danger, I guess. How is it called in English, by the way? Rhetoroman?
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patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7019 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map
| Message 5 of 8 23 June 2007 at 5:44pm | IP Logged |
Julie wrote:
The fourth official language of Switzerland is in danger, I guess. How is it called in English, by the way? Rhetoroman? |
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I thought it was simply Romansh. Check here.
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Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6443 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese
| Message 6 of 8 23 June 2007 at 5:47pm | IP Logged |
patuco wrote:
Julie wrote:
The fourth official language of Switzerland is in danger, I guess. How is it called in English, by the way? Rhetoroman? |
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I thought it was simply Romansh. Check here. |
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Correct.
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MOSF Newbie Antarctica Joined 6472 days ago 17 posts - 17 votes Speaks: EnglishC2 Studies: FrenchB2
| Message 7 of 8 23 June 2007 at 10:22pm | IP Logged |
The first language in that situation that comes to my mind is Irish. After spending some time in Ireland I have to say that it's not a language I would learn. The Irish themselves don't seem to care much about it and therefore it will remain confined to some areas of the country and even lose strength. Considering all the changes the country is going through right now, with massive inmigration and all that, I doubt things can change. The language is still coofficial and taught at schools though.
Edited by MOSF on 23 June 2007 at 10:23pm
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HTale Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6382 days ago 164 posts - 167 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written)* Studies: French
| Message 8 of 8 25 June 2007 at 5:36am | IP Logged |
An endangered language that comes to mind is Tachilhit, spoken in the southern regions of Morocco. Most Moroccans see little point of it, and see any berber in the fight to preserve it as a language as a "berber nationalist" (if such a term can exist). There are *some* moves to introduce it in mainstream schooling, much like Irish. However, just as in the case with Irish, people do not seem interested. Another factor is that many berbers marry 'arab' moroccans, and so children grow up not knowing the language (as in my case, although I intend to learn it).
Another danger is the level of migration from mountainous rural regions to the nearby cities, and vice-versa, with arab speaking doctors, teachers etc. coming in, with no knowledge (and no intention of learning) the language. As this increases, the chances for the preservation of the language in these communities decreases.
What also seems interesting, and a point risen in most posts, is the inferiority complex the native speakers of these languages suffer from. However, berbers are proud of their language; some even go as far as to speak Tachilhit exclusively in the berber "strongholds" (Agadir, Taradount etc.). The problem is quite unique in the fact that this language defines a rather seperate ethnic group in Morocco, whereas the other examples are foreign languages pervading a country.
The attitude of many arab moroccans is that the language is a "local dialect", which I find to be both ignorant and arrogant of them. Berbers, who claim to be the first settlers in Morocco often play the "alienated in our land" card, which I find equally repulsive. The fight for the preservation of the language is almost like the battle front for a deeper cultural war between the two ethnicities.
Sorry for the long post. :-)
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