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FSI levantine/Saudi Arabic: ok for MSA? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| DavidW Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6528 days ago 318 posts - 458 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Italian, Persian, Malay Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, German, Urdu | Message 1 of 9 15 July 2007 at 1:26pm | IP Logged |
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I'm trying to get a base in 'modern standard arabic.' Afterwards, I might try to learn some Egyptian or Levantine dialect.. I don't know which yet. Are the Arabic courses on www.fsi-language-courses.net useful for a student of MSA? For instance, the conjugations of verbs in the Saudi course look very similar, but, perhaps with a few differences in the vowels. What about the levantine phonetics course? Has anyone used it? Comments? Thanks!
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| DavidW Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6528 days ago 318 posts - 458 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Italian, Persian, Malay Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, German, Urdu | Message 2 of 9 15 July 2007 at 1:36pm | IP Logged |
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From the introduction of the levantine course:
Most of the problems that occur within this dialect also occur in most of the Arabic dialects from Iraq through North Africa, as well as occurring also in Classical Arabic. Consequently, this course can also be used for dialects other that Levantine Arabic. Perhaps it's better to stick just to MSA pronounciatian for now so as not to speak a stange mixture.. or are all sounds pronounced essentially the same way in all dialects? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| aru-aru Triglot Senior Member Latvia Joined 6459 days ago 244 posts - 331 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, Russian | Message 3 of 9 15 July 2007 at 2:03pm | IP Logged |
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I'd say the sounds differ.
the "kaaf" sound (often transcribed as "q") in the word "qahwa" (coffee) is, i think, not pronounced in Levantine at all, sounds a bit like "g" (as in "go") in Egyptian and like a heavy "K" in MSA. the "jiim" sound is "j" (as in "jump") in MSA and like "g" in Egyptian. I might be mistaken, just started Arabic myself. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| DavidW Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6528 days ago 318 posts - 458 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Italian, Persian, Malay Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, German, Urdu | Message 4 of 9 15 July 2007 at 5:10pm | IP Logged |
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I've started with it now, if something sounds different than what I'm used to, I'll just make a mental note. I'll let you know how I get on. The first sound is alien to me, it's like the russian Ж.
Edit: Upa.. Half the speakers in the linguaphone course use the same sound, I didn't notice. Nabiilah for instance. And I think she is meant to be from Syria. Edited by DavidW on 23 July 2007 at 3:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| DavidW Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6528 days ago 318 posts - 458 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Italian, Persian, Malay Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, German, Urdu | Message 5 of 9 15 July 2007 at 5:14pm | IP Logged |
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It sounds very nice, btw, levantine arabic. The manual actually appears rather to teach you how to speak english with a levantine arabic accent, which could be fun :-).
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| Talib Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6663 days ago 171 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (classical) Studies: Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 6 of 9 24 July 2007 at 11:55am | IP Logged |
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The study of dialects is beneficial to the study Modern Standard Arabic, but it is still different than it and it might be confusing to study both at the same time in the beginning stages until one has a firm grasp of the basics. Because the vast majority of MSA is written without vowelling once one gets past materials for learning, one needs to have a firm command of verb conjugations and noun patterns in order to read the texts correctly.
I am not sure about the Levatine course though. If it only teaches pronounciation, it might be okay, but I'm not sure. The colloquial styles differ much more than in pronouciation alone. They might drop or add a letter, change vowels from an a to an i or the like, change a consonant letter to another letter, or use a different word altogher, and this is the main reason why I think it would be confusing. One book that I can recommend for learning MSA is Easy Arabic Grammar by Jane Wightwick and Mahmoud Gaafar. I covers a good amount of not only grammar, but also vocabulary, setences, and some dialouges that is relevant for the beginning student without being overly technical. It think it is important to have some grammar for reading Arabic because only knowing the meanings of words is not enough to understand the meanings of sentences properly. Although I think this book is beneficial for learning MSA, one needs to look elsewhere for learning how to pronouce letters and words because it does not come with a cd and it only gives transliteration as an aid in pronouciation. Edited by Talib on 24 July 2007 at 2:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Talib Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6663 days ago 171 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (classical) Studies: Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 7 of 9 26 July 2007 at 5:09pm | IP Logged |
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Perhaps I should not try to be dissuasive about studying a dialect in the beginning. Its true that it might be confusing to study both in the beginning, but that would only apply to someone who wants to be able to read or speak Fusha perfectly. As for someone who only wants to understand others and speak Arabic, there should not be a problem in starting off with them both.
To put things in perspective, I studied at a language institute, and when I once asked a brother there if he had any books for colloquial Arabic, he looked at me strangely and told me that if he ever would have a handbook for learning colloquial Arabic, he would burn it. He was someone who did not want to let even a single word of 'amiyya enter his vocabulary because he wanted to speak Fusha flawlessly. I take a much more relaxed attitude than that towards learning a dialect. In fact, I recently began working on the course 'Eastern Arabic', which I find to be wonderful for learning the Palestinian dialect. It also seems to be very close to the Arabic spoken in Jordan. But I still think that if someone's *main* goal is learning Fusha, then one should hold off on learning a dialect for at least a little while in order to use Fusha correctly. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Talib Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6663 days ago 171 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (classical) Studies: Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 8 of 9 27 July 2007 at 11:26am | IP Logged |
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Fusha pertains to both MSA and Classical Arabic because they are both written forms of the language. The word is derived from the masdar (verbal noun) fasaaha, which means purity of language or eloquence.
Sometimes Fusha is used to specifically mean Classical Arabic. Classical Arabic generally refers to the time frame of pre-Islamic Arabic until about 150 years after the revelation of the Holy Qur'an. This period is considered to be the purest time of spoken Arabic, and being illiterate did not stop one from being eloquent. It was during this time that Arabic grammar laws were derived from spoken Fusha. Grammar was an evolving process, and later grammarians built upon the works of early grammarians by using proofs from the Classical Arabic used in pre-Islamic poetry and the Holy Qur'an in support of their grammar principles. The point of this derivation of grammar laws was to preserve the language in its purest form. The grammar and other sciences of the Arabic language, such as rhetoric, enable one to accurately use Fusha even after the Classical period, and it is still used today by those with a command over the Classical language. Edited by Talib on 27 July 2007 at 11:27am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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