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’The’ and Lake Geneva | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7378 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes  12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 12 22 September 2005 at 1:14pm | IP Logged |
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I wonder if there is a systematic way of knowing whether you say 'Lake X' or 'The Lake X' in English.
For instance we speak about 'Lake Geneva' but should we say 'Lake Thun' for the Thunersee, or 'The Lake of Neuchatel' for the 'Lac de Neuchâtel'? Is there a general rule for such geographical entities as 'The Rhone Valley' and 'Death Valley' or do you need to learn them by heart? If the latter, then what applies to new valleys not known to the English speaking world? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sir Nigel Senior Member United States Joined 7106 days ago 1126 posts - 1102 votes 2 sounds | Message 2 of 12 22 September 2005 at 3:10pm | IP Logged |
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Usually you don't use articles with "entities" such as lakes and valleys. Of course if you add something to it, like The Lake Champlain Region then you use an article. I guess it depends on the function of the name in the sentence, e.g. "The Lake Geneva area..." vs. "Lake Geneva." Does this satisfy your question?
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| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7378 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 12 22 September 2005 at 3:31pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks but no. Why 'The Rhone Valley' and not 'Rhone Valley' ?
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| brandon Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 7049 days ago 54 posts - 55 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, French Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Italian | Message 4 of 12 22 September 2005 at 4:28pm | IP Logged |
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I think, for the most part, "the" is used, i.e. The Great Lakes, The Rhein River, The Mississippi River, etc. "the" is not needed in the following cases, Lake + name, i.e. Lake Geneva, Lake Erie. I couldn't think of another example similar to Death Valley. I think it may just be named "Death Valley" not having much relation to a valley since most, when thinking of Death Valley, think of desert.
'the' is also used for mountain ranges, the Andes, the Alps, etc. However, specific mountains... Mount+name doesn't use "the", ie Mt Everest, Mt McKinley. Hope this helps some. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| KingM Triglot Senior Member michaelwallaceauthor Joined 7193 days ago 275 posts - 300 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 12 22 September 2005 at 4:35pm | IP Logged |
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I think it has to be learned on a case by case basis. I used to live in Utah Valley and now I live in the Mad River Valley. There's no rhyme or reason for the disparity.
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| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7320 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes 6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 12 22 September 2005 at 6:51pm | IP Logged |
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Francois, I think sometimes it varies depending on its origin. For example, "The Saharah Desert" is a very redundant way of calling the desert, since "sahara" already means "great desert".
As for the Rhone Valley, I'm guessing that the origin of the name has "river" implied in it. Edited by victor on 22 September 2005 at 6:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7196 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 7 of 12 22 September 2005 at 7:53pm | IP Logged |
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1.If names of a river are used with "the", it is always accepted. After it has been introduced as a topic, "the" is always omitted, similar to the pronouns in Spanish with verbs. There is an acception for certain names such as "The Mississipi River" where you always use the article.
2.If something is plural in geography, the is always used. Everything else needs to be learned by heart, Francois. Edited by czech on 22 September 2005 at 7:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Miri-chan Tetraglot Groupie United States crimsonietta.ne Joined 7010 days ago 59 posts - 60 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Cantonese, English*, French, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Thai | Message 8 of 12 22 September 2005 at 9:55pm | IP Logged |
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"The" is used when referring to a noun. No "the" is used when referring to a place.
Well, most of the time. See, you can live IN Death Valley. Thus, it is a place. However, THE Tigris-Euphrates River Valley is a thing. It is a river valley. A specific location that you can draw out. Same with THE Rhone Valley. It is a literal valley that is there where the land is depressed. It is a thing. (Maybe because it's also a river valley?) Also, if you say it like this: "The Valley of Death" "The Valley of Tigris-Euphrates" "The River of Mississippi" "The River of Yellow" If it sounds strange that way, it probably needs to have a "the" at the beginning (as is the case with the bottom three) THE Mississippi River is a thing. It is not a location, as with THE Great Lakes. However, Lake Geneva is not a specific reference to a thing. Sure, it's a lake, but... it's really hard to explain with lakes, but know that lakes are probably the exception to the rule. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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