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Spanish ’se’ | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7040 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 28 23 September 2005 at 5:21am | IP Logged |
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One more stupid newbie question :)
What's the purpose of the word "se" (yourself) in Spanish? For instance when saying "usted se va del hotel?" (are you leaving the hotel?). Why not just "usted va del hotel"? I don't understand the se in this context. Why do they use it, what does it mean or add in this sentence? Tuffy 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7109 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 2 of 28 23 September 2005 at 5:30am | IP Logged |
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In this context the verb in question is not actually "ir" but "irse" which means to leave.
so... voy = I am going me voy = I am leaving se va del hotel = you are leaving the hotel. EDIT: Forgot that the original is obviously a question so... ¿se va del hotel? = are you leaving the hotel? Andy. Edited by Andy E on 23 September 2005 at 5:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7109 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 3 of 28 23 September 2005 at 5:34am | IP Logged |
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Tuffy,
One further point - I don't wish to burden you with any further grammar at this stage but you are going to come across these so-called pronominal/reflexive verbs an awful lot in Spanish and there won't always be a nice one-to-one translation into English. Andy. Edited by Andy E on 23 September 2005 at 5:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7040 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 4 of 28 23 September 2005 at 6:40am | IP Logged |
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Phew, I don't like grammar :-)
But I understand that "voy" is simply a different 'word' than "me voy"? The "me" changes the meaning of the word voy? And the context of sentences changes meanings too sometimes? Those words pronominal and reflexive are difficult for me :) But do you have a tip for me Andy? For someone who isn't very good in grammar or who sometimes wants to understand it perfectly? Should I perhaps simply learn the words and remember what it means? Hence: not trying to explain and translate everything? But simply remember "voy" and "me voy" and each of their meanings? Tuffy 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7109 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 5 of 28 23 September 2005 at 7:09am | IP Logged |
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It's probably better to describe them as different "expressions" rather than "words".
Ignore the "pronimal/reflexive" bit. Unfortunately, I don't know any Dutch. If I did I would better be able to give you native examples. Yes, it's probably better to learn the words and remember what they mean rather than to explain everything. Look at this way. If you learn how to use "ir" in its various forms. i.e voy, vas, va, vamos etc, then with the addition of "me, te, se, nos" (and there are a lot more forms with "ir" than with the pronoun), you've conquered two different expressions in all its forms (i.e. time & aspect) - to go & to leave - much easier than learning two different verbs . EDIT: What I am getting at is that if you know how to say "I would have gone" then it's going to be really easy to work out how to say "I would have left". Andy. Edited by Andy E on 23 September 2005 at 7:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| cbashara Senior Member United States adventuresinspanish. Joined 7135 days ago 186 posts - 188 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 28 23 September 2005 at 8:38am | IP Logged |
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I had very big problems with reflexives for quite some time and my tutor just told me to master the verbs with out reflexives first and then the reflexives would come with time, and it's true. One of the best things to do is read, read, read in the target language to see how various expressions are formed. When you read in Spanish you get a better grasp of how pronouns and reflexives are used.
Just give yourself time, you don't have to be great at grammar to speak a language. Most native speakers of any language don't understand a large part of their own grammar, they just "know" how it works. I think as adults we have a hard time with that concept. We just want to know "Why do they do it this way?" I personally do study many reflexive verbs as their own words (when I learn a new verb I look it up and see if it has a reflexive counterpart and study both new words), but I totally agree with Andy's method too. Just do what works best for you. Chandra 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7040 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 7 of 28 23 September 2005 at 8:43am | IP Logged |
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I'm beginning to understand a little.
There are simply sets of expressions. And what I'm now learning are the 2 sets for expressing going and leaving. I have learned me, se and nos thus far. I don't understand "te" yet but I have read it in an sms once. Is "te" the informal version of "se"? I was happy by the way to see that many verbs are alike. So comer, beber and saber etc. look alike. But I know there are also irregular words :( Did you also have the experience of sometimes beeing frustrated and overwelmed with difficult sentences? But later often it becomes clear and easier fortunately. I gues it's a matter of keep going and not beeing discouraged. I listen to the tapes at least 4 times a day and in between I watch some Spanish tv or play with Rosetta Stone puzzles :) So I do spend at the very least 2 or 3 hours a day on learning. I am a slow learner I'm afraid. But when I know something, I do know it well. Tuffy :) Edited by tuffy on 23 September 2005 at 8:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7109 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 8 of 28 23 September 2005 at 9:10am | IP Logged |
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"te" is the informal version...
¿te vas del hotel? = are you leaving the hotel? (tú) ¿se va del hotel? = are you leaving the hotel? (usted) Chandra's absolute correct. Nobody on this forum was born with a magical knowledge of grammar, phonetics, linguistics or comparative philology. It's all been learnt. In my case, I learnt grammatical terminology when I began studying Latin aged 11. That was over 30 years ago. My point about reflexive verbs was not ignore their separate meanings but precisely the opposite. That is, to recognise that the verbal forms of time and aspect for "ir" and "irse" are identical (and therefore don't have to be learnt separately) but even so provide a means of expressing radically different things. Tuffy, if you can say that when you know something you know it well, then you've got absolutely nothing to worry about. That being the case, don't get overly concerned about the time taken to master difficult items. Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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