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Manx Extinct? | ||
Tags: Endangered Language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Stephen Groupie Australia Joined 6411 days ago 61 posts - 63 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 1 of 14 03 March 2009 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||
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I came across a link in the omniglot blog about Manx being an extinct language.
I was sure surprised at this, as I know that alongwith Irish, Gaelic and even Cornish, there has been a real effort to bolster these languages over recent years. http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/39Manx-language-is-very-much. 5005402.jp Does anyone speak or are learning Manx here? I would be interested in your thoughts. Tapadh Leat Steve 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6080 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 14 03 March 2009 at 10:55am | IP Logged | ||
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Cornish as I said is not extinct.
I have friends who speak and learn Manx. TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ExtraLean Triglot Senior Member France languagelearners.myf Joined 5994 days ago 897 posts - 880 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 3 of 14 03 March 2009 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | ||
Na wra kernewek merwel ha byw ov hwath! :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6080 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 4 of 14 03 March 2009 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Dhe wir Extralean - Na vydh Kernewek merwys bys vykken!
(Correct Extralean - Cornish won't be extinct ever) TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 5 of 14 03 March 2009 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, there is an argument that a language without a direct line of continuance is a new language. There's a growing feeling in Scotland that the language emerging from Gaelic-medium schools isn't really Gaelic. What is it then?
It's a creole, with Gaelic as its lexifier language -- and this despite the fact that there is still a pretty significant number of true continuing Gaelic natives in the country, so what does that say about places where there isn't that continuation? Put it another way. Tolkien didn't leave a way to say "I love you" in Elvish, so the scriptwriters for the film made one up -- but none of them were native speakers, so is their solution likely to fit into the Elvish idiom? Probably not. In fact, definitely not -- they just used "I want you" instead (IIRC), which is a very Spanish way of doing things, whereas Elvish was more modelled on Welsh, so a Celtic construct would have been more appropriate. How many new features did English speakers introduce into Manx and Cornish when they reconstructed them, and how many new features does it take to make a new language? Not that I'm trying to do down either of the languages, just saying that there's a very strong case to consider them as new languages, which would lead to acceptance of the description of both as "extinct". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6080 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 6 of 14 03 March 2009 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I know Cornish was reconstructed entirely (well, about 99%) from old texts written by native speakers. New words have been introduced. But - Welsh has far more English loanwords than Cornish - but Welsh is still its own.
They use Fundui (Findeeiy) for "To Find" while Cornish use the traditional "Kavoes" which would be Cafwyd or Cafod in Welsh I believe. There are many more examples. Manx was made from a bible basically. Dont know much more than that. TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6909 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 14 04 March 2009 at 1:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I once ran into a Manx speaker in Ireland, he showed me a book (which contents I couldn't make anything out of). From what I've read, Manx was "less extinct" than Cornish a couple of decades ago (the encyclopedias around here usually stated that Isle of Man had half a dozen native Manx speakers, but that Cornish died when Dolly Pentreath passed away, in 1777).
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| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6080 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 8 of 14 04 March 2009 at 9:24am | IP Logged | ||
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Dolly Pentreath is now believed to be a myth.
The truth is that people used the language long-long after her. Henry Janner, when he was reviving the language in the early 1900s, encountered an old man who kept his ability alive by talking to his cat, and children in the villiage of Zennor and further west who could speak Cornish natively, and used it in their games. Cornish also has some modern-day native speakers. These, however, no longer have Cornish as their primary language because of living in an Anglo-centric area. But before they went to school they knew Cornish and only that. TEL 1 person has voted this message useful |
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