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Meaning of LA and LO | ||
Tags: Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7036 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 17 of 23 02 November 2005 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Haha, yes it is confusing now :-)
Thanks Andy. Because indeed, in Pimsleur I heard the word LE beeing used for a woman. But that was as a replacement for HER. Please bear with me. Grammar is confusing and I need a simple summary so I can learn that. So in short: 1. LE is a replacement for her,him, you* And in that case you can also use lo or la instead. 2. But when it replaces YOU (when talking to someone, direct) LE is only used for men. When you say "you" to a woman you only use LA. (So onlu men can have lo AND le.) Do I get it right that way? So for example: "I want to see YOU" to a woman can only be: Quiero verla? And not Quiero verle? But you can say: "I want to see her": Quiero verla or verle. And when talking to a woman, it's always: puede ayudarla? Or is that also indirect and is puedo aydarle also correct? *One question then: with the indirect examples you also typed "you". How can "you" be an indirect form then? Is giving something to "you" not direct but indirect? And saying "you" to someone is direct? Thanks! Edited by tuffy on 02 November 2005 at 3:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 23 02 November 2005 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You should never use -le for a woman, regardless of whether it is informal or polite, therefore this
...is correct.
Verle is wrong, but verla is OK.
No, it's ayudarla, since the -le is only for a man. However, I suggest that you check out Andy's examples on the previous page about indirect objects. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| morprussell Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7165 days ago 272 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 19 of 23 02 November 2005 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
So you're saying it's wrong to say to an elderly woman, Quiero hablarle maņana = I want to talk to you tomorrow Voy a darle la llave = I'm going to give the key to you Thanks 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 23 02 November 2005 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Actually, your examples are OK. I would definitely use the -le form for the two sentences you mention above.
However, for tuffy's example ("Quiero verle") that sounds completely wrong to me. It should be "Quiero verla". This is what prompted me to say that you should never use -le for a woman. I'll try to explain as follows: tuffy's example: "Quiero verla" You are telling someone, either male or female, that you want to see a woman. In other words, the person you are talking to is not the person you are referring to. morprussell's example: "Quiero hablarle maņana" You are politely telling a woman that you want to talk to her tomorrow. In other words, the person you are talking to is the person you are referring to. The informal version would be "Quiero hablarte maņana". I hope this is clearer. Perhaps someone who learned Spanish could explain this using the rules of grammar. All I know is that certain phrases sound correct and others don't, but I don't know why. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| morprussell Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7165 days ago 272 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 21 of 23 02 November 2005 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
My sentence, "Quiero hablarle maņana", is an example of an indirect object pronoun While Tuffy's sentence, "Quiero verla", is a direct object pronoun. This site has lots of Spanish grammar clearly explained including more on direct and indirect object pronouns.
I think this is the most important thing in the end. Grammar rules aren't worth much when you need to talk and understand at full speed. Edited by morprussell on 02 November 2005 at 9:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7196 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 22 of 23 02 November 2005 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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INDIRECT OBJECTS
me nos te le les to me to us to you to him, etc to them etc DIRECT OBJECTS me nos te lo,la los,las me us you it etc. them etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Guanche Hexaglot Senior Member Spain danielmarin.blogspot Joined 7048 days ago 168 posts - 178 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, GermanC1, RussianB1, French, Japanese Studies: Greek, Mandarin, Arabic (Written) | Message 23 of 23 04 November 2005 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If you use "le" when you're supposed to use "lo" (ie "verle" instead of "verlo"), this is called in Spain "leismo" and is considered slightly incorrect, but it's tolerated since many people are "leistas", especially in central Spain. You can hear a lot of educated "lesistas" everyday, including many politicians (even our president!).
On the other hand, when you use "la" instead of "lo" ("decirla" instead of "decirle"), which is called "laismo", then this is considered completely incorrect and not proper of educated people. To sum up, don't worry about "leismo", but take special care with "laismo", since it may sound quite incorrect. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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