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Dante’s Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5662 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 1 of 8 26 May 2009 at 8:26pm | IP Logged |
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I am interested in learning Italian primarily so that one day I can read Dante's 'Divine Comedy.' I understand, however, that this work was written in the early 1300's. Therefore, I would like to know, is knowing modern standard Italian enough to understand this work, or is a specialized understanding of the vocabulary and grammar of Medieval Italian required (especially of the Florentine dialect)? And if so, do you know where I would be able to purchase any such materials that specialize in the Italian of Dante's day and age? Your assisstance would be greatly appreciated.
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| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 2 of 8 26 May 2009 at 8:46pm | IP Logged |
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It was Dante's work which to a large extent established Tuscan (the dialect of Florence) as the standard Italian language. There were, and are other Italian dialects that might have formed the basis for it, but Dante raised the prestige of Tuscan so much that it was accepted as the standard.
I would guess that it is largely understandable to modern Italians because of its role in moulding the standard language, but it is bound to have changed. Probably not as much as English has in that time, though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 8 26 May 2009 at 9:23pm | IP Logged |
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I have read it, and it is tough reading - but not inherently more difficult than for instance the works of the 'crepuscolari' or other poets from the 1800s and early 1900s. You should however use an annoted edition, otherwise you will run afoul in all the allusions to the history of late Medieval Italy. Edited by Iversen on 26 May 2009 at 9:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| MäcØSŸ Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5809 days ago 259 posts - 392 votes Speaks: Italian*, EnglishC2 Studies: German | Message 4 of 8 26 May 2009 at 9:48pm | IP Logged |
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I'm studying it at school, and I find it difficult to read even if I am a native speaker of Italian. Due to the high rate of
uncommon words, archaic spellings and semantic changes, I think that you should become fluent in Italian before trying to read it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Dark_Sunshine Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5765 days ago 340 posts - 357 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 5 of 8 26 May 2009 at 10:30pm | IP Logged |
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I'd back up what Iversen said about getting a copy with footnotes (as opposed to endnotes or without notes). I've read an English translation of the Divine Comedy, and many of the historical & cultural references were totally lost on me- turning to the back page every two seconds for explanations kind of takes the enjoyment out of it.
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| JBI Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 5691 days ago 46 posts - 67 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew, English* Studies: Italian, Mandarin, French | Message 6 of 8 27 May 2009 at 1:00am | IP Logged |
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The language seems to have altered less than other languages - certainly far less than English. You'd need to really study literary Italian, as apposed to spoken Italian (note, the difference is in the diction and stylistics more than anything) and have a good sense of the language (and a decent reference vocab and footnotes as mentioned above). Generally, the rhetorical play of the poetry itself - the formation of the hendecasyllabics themselves - contain many tricks and difficulties - not to mention the vastness of the uncommon vocabulary covered. Still, sooner or later it makes sense; Dante's contemporaries, such as Cavalcanti, Angioleiri, and La Compiuta Donzella, all read with much greater ease - with only a few really strange words surfacing. Dante however, is hard reading, like Shakespeare is hard reading.
But yeah, with a translation side by side, and footnotes, it should be possible - sooner or later, the more you read, probably the translation and the footnotes will stop being used. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5662 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 7 of 8 27 May 2009 at 5:31pm | IP Logged |
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Thank you all for your suggestions; you've been most helpful. I've already read the Comedy in English and am thus aware of the endless allusions Dante makes to his contemporary medieval culture. The main concern I have is the vocabulary of the poem. I doubt a standard Italian dictionary would suffice for looking up many of the words Dante uses, many of which are, as indicated, rare and now archaic. Is there a decent reference vocabulary out there you would recommend?
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| Tigresuisse Triglot Senior Member SwitzerlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6005 days ago 182 posts - 180 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 8 03 June 2009 at 9:03am | IP Logged |
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Hi Jackal11,
actually I don't know if it exists something like a reference vocabulary to read the Divina Commedia ... I think it is better for you if you can find an Italian edition with annotations/footnotes and there you'll also find explanations of the vocabulary. I checked the one I have and yes, I confirm you in such an edition you'll find also the explanation of words. Mine is the one of Zanichelli, "la Divina Commedia" annotata e commentata da Tommaso di Salvo (con illustrazioni). It is the one I had to buy for the school but I think for your purpose could be very useful as it is tought for young Italian students. Mine edition is a bit old, so I don't know if they did a newer one ... I hope this could help, enjoy your language study Marta 1 person has voted this message useful |
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