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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| icing_death Senior Member United States Joined 5863 days ago 296 posts - 302 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 17 of 27 27 April 2009 at 9:01am | IP Logged | ||
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This is a very strange thread. JBI, thank you for creating an account for the sole purpose of discouraging people
from learning Hebrew. But this is a language forum. We are language learners. If we want to study a language, we research it, then study it. I've never seen this happen with any other language on this forum. Frankly, I question your motives for posting here. I feel like your trying to send us a hidden message. Are we not capable of accomplishing what you did? Are we not welcome in your culture? Forgive me if I'm wrong. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 18 of 27 27 April 2009 at 9:24am | IP Logged | ||
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icing_death: don't agree with your point. JBI knows what he/she is talking about and is giving useful advice in an informative and friendly manner!
What's the problem with that? The difference between him and some of the other posters is that he takes a more pragmatic view to language learning. There is nothing wrong with that at all! He is suggesting that people might consider primarily spending their time using languages that are likely to be practically useful for the learner. Also, he is giving advice about the risk with taking on a language that is well known for being a real challengee - then he explains what some of the challenges are.. Personally I think that there are about 10-15 languages which are seriously useful for a Westerner (like 95% of us here) to know, to enable us to communicate with the large majority of the civilised world. The rest are "extracurricular" languages. Hebrew probably falls into the extracurricular category for most people. (Obviously, if somebody moves to a region - this becomes invalid. It's their responsibility to try to learn the language if they are going to live there.) It just strikes me as a little bit funny when somebody jumps straight into Kirigiz (for example), when basic Russian would solve all his communication problems with Kirgiz people AND enable him to communicate with millions more. Really!! A knowledgeable person comes on the forum and you give him a hard time for being helpful! What's that about? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lemanensis Bilingual Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland hebrew.ecott.ch Joined 5926 days ago 73 posts - 77 votes Speaks: French*, English*, German, Spanish, Swedish Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 19 of 27 27 April 2009 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | ||
I would question the usefulness of one person's opinion for other language learners. We all come to language learning with different motivations, backgrounds, skills. No-one should let themselves be influenced by what someone else says. I also find it absurd to hear constantly that Hebrew is so difficult. It has its difficulties, as do all languages, but frankly on the whole the grammar is pretty straightforward in comparison with many others (it's my 11th language). I've been doing it now for just a year, but I can tell you it is so much easier than Russian grammar. - and I have a BA plus postgrad qualification in Russian and lived in Russia for six months. Regardless, even if a language is difficult it is never impossible. Usefulness is not always why people learn languages. You might just as well criticize someone for taking up knitting or painting or mountain climbing or whatever. You can also learn a language because it's there. I have learnt a huge amount about so many different things since I started Hebrew and I fully intend to carry on with it. (of various motivations one was that I wanted to tackle a non-European language and Hebrew was my pick - I couldn't give a toss what other people think). Claiming that all Israelis speak perfect English is 1. irrelevant because if you go to Israel (or anywhere) and just speak English you will remain an outsider and never see much of the full picture and fully appreciate the country you're visiting; and 2. not totally true, just as it is totally untrue to claim that all Scandinavians or Germans speak English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5901 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 20 of 27 27 April 2009 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Usefulness is a very relative word. For me the usefulness of a language is a function of the culture it embodies. And in this sense, Hebrew is a phenomenally useful language.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lemanensis Bilingual Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland hebrew.ecott.ch Joined 5926 days ago 73 posts - 77 votes Speaks: French*, English*, German, Spanish, Swedish Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 21 of 27 27 April 2009 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | ||
And for me a large contributing factor is the enjoyment I get out of the challenge of learning it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JBI Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 5693 days ago 46 posts - 67 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew, English* Studies: Italian, Mandarin, French | Message 22 of 27 27 April 2009 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm essentially a native speaker of Hebrew (I spoke Hebrew at home growing up) so perhaps I cannot say. As to creating this account for the purpose of posting on this thread, well, that is more coincidental than not, i'truth I am more interested in the Italian speaking thread, and registered so as to bypass the adds. As for hidden message - well, I'm trying to state the facts. I mentioned before, in earlier posts, not to let my discussion really dissuade one from perusing their interests, as can be noted. As to not being welcome into a culture - depends how you see that. I know many Jews who would agree, and say you aren't welcome, whereas I know many who would say, "Come right ahead, we have nothing to hide." But even that - Hebrew is a whole other mindset - it's like learning Arabic - you don't just need the language and the script which is difficult enough, you need a whole new understanding of pragmatics and idiom. That's what I'm trying to really get at, that with a language like this, one really needs to consider why they are learning it. It's not like Italian, when you already speak Spanish and French, and think, might as well grab that one too in a year of hard studying - it's way outside of that, and has very little in common with European languages, and is spoken culturally in a mode very different from a European mindset. If one were to look at the topic of this thread, one would note that it is discussing the interest in the language, not someone's specific interest. In that sense, I think it fitting to look into motivations, usefulness, and other pragmatic rationale, rather than merely saying "wow, would you know that". The Hebrew language, and the interest it generates are, I would argue, the topic of the discussion, and in a sense, I think my points quite valid in discussing the appeal, difficulties, and usefulness of the language. As this is not someone's personal log, and I am not attacking someone's own personal interest in the language, I think my point justified - it is one thing to discuss learning a language, it is another to discuss the language itself, and I don't see what I said as anything too controversial or extreme - simply an opinion of the way I see the language, and the way it interacts with the world. Beyond that though - what would have been a better reply? "Isn't that something?" or perhaps a "Oh, that Jewish language is so neat," or perhaps "Cool, that many people are interested in trying to learn a language for whatever reason." I think an examination and a discussion on the more practical things would perhaps be more useful to someone actually considering learning the language. As for the grammar being easy - it certainly is more difficult than English, definitely more difficult than Romance Languages, and perhaps the most common 4 binyanim are accessible, but beyond that? I haven't studied Russian, I wouldn't know (though I am told Russian is quite difficult), but beyond that - there is still a language which, though one may be able to get around (though many people will be bored and usually flip to English sooner than you can speak) still is completely different in outlook. Keep in mind also, those convenient little dots under words aren't actually written in within real settings Quite frankly though, I'm surprised there is such a negative backlash - someone happened to ask a question about learning the language, and I thought I gave a decent answer to it, and one which took into account somewhat the person's rationale. Forgive me if I have sinned, etc. etc. Edited by JBI on 27 April 2009 at 10:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| skeeterses Senior Member United States angelfire.com/games5Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6620 days ago 302 posts - 356 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Spanish | Message 23 of 27 27 April 2009 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think this discussion could be helped if we had more input from some more Jewish people. Because there are
plenty of Jewish people who are just as interested in learning foreign languages. Several years back, I met a Jewish man who worked at the same telemarketing firm that I did. His background was in chemistry and mathematics but he has a website dedicated to learning foreign languages and one of his pet languages was Interlingua, one of those artificial languages like Esperanto. Unfortunately, he never got far with Hebrew. And don't forget that the person who invented Esperanto was also Jewish himself. So as far as language learners are concerned, both Jew and non-Jewish, foreign languages is not all about getting a good paying Sales job or speaking to your spouse's family. There's plenty of other reasons too. I'm sure that there are native Hebrew speakers who would be happy to help non-native Hebrew speakers with practicing it. It's a matter of living in a neighborhood with Hebrew speakers and looking around. The other thing to is you have to concentrate and get that wanderlust under control. A hard language like Hebrew is not impossible, but it does deserve 100% effort. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| J-Learner Senior Member Australia Joined 6032 days ago 556 posts - 636 votes Studies: Yiddish, English* Studies: Dutch | Message 24 of 27 28 April 2009 at 6:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm Jewish. I already speak English. What is my definition of usefulness? Well, I guess that it is not my primary motive for learning foreign languages.
For me, a language being important for business is not a motive. I study economics but I'm not a businessman. A language being spoken by many people is a blessing because it allows me to communicate with more of this world's many human beings. Having said that, I don't believe it to be my main motive. Having a deep interest in languages, culture and many other topics (some of which require reading deeply literature in other languages) means that for me I must learn foreign languages. I have a great interest in the Germanic and Semitic languages. Hey hey! (as said by a famous Jew) That includes Yiddish and Hebrew. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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