Mandarin Nightmare (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Mandarin Nightmare
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

34 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

null
Groupie
China
Joined 6123 days ago
76 posts - 82 votes

Speaks: Mandarin*

Message 33 of 34

26 April 2009 at 4:44am | IP Logged

Quote:

Incidentally while Japanese uses Chinese characters alongside its syllable-based scripts a significant number of Chinese characters are still required for literacy. Literacy is officially defined in China as 1500 characters for rural people and 2000 for urban dwellers, while Japanese schools formally teach over 1900 characters by the end of secondary school. (More characters would be required for advanced reading in both languages).

Where did you get these numbers?

3,500 Hanzi is a must have for all Chinese (both urban and rural)

In Japan, 1,945 Kanji are required to be called 'literated'.

1 person has voted this message useful

Nick_dm
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 5711 days ago
24 posts - 26 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Cantonese

Message 34 of 34

26 April 2009 at 12:19pm | IP Logged

null, I've done some more research and it appears that 1500/2000 characters was the standard in 1952, but in 1988 they increased it to 3500.

"例如1952年6月5日由教育部公布的《常用字表� �，收2000个汉字，实际上是一个扫盲的识字标� ��，即农民以其中的1500字为标准，工人以2000� �为标准。到了80年代，这2000字已不能满足人� �社会生活的需要，因此，1988年研制成的《现� ��汉语常用字表》就收字3500个，做为小学及初中阶段的识字标准(小学2500字，为“常用字”� ��初中增加1000字，为“次常用字”)。"
[http://ahyx.gov.cn/zl/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=5311]

However it seems like the UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) Institute for Statistics (UIS) may still be using the 1500/2000 character definition [http://www.accu.or.jp/litdbase/policy/chn/index.htm].
Since the UIS mainly uses data collected by the national government [http://portal.unesco.org/es/ev.php-URL_ID=5637&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html], I would guess that the Chinese Ministry of Education still collects "basic literacy" (1500/2000字) data as well as "advanced literacy" (3500字) data.

Regarding Japanese, I've read that the 1945 characters of the Joyo Kanji (常用漢字) are not sufficient for many newspapers and books. Actually the Joyo Kanji list is expected to be expanded this year ["新常用漢字表試案、追加１９１字", http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0116/TKY200901160297.html]. Also the Jinmeiyo Kanji (人名用漢字) official government list includes 983 extra characters used in personal names. So most Japanese people will know far more than 1945 characters.

Anyway, my point was simply to argue against:

William Camden wrote:

... Japan (which has an only partly ideographic writing system, part being a syllabic system) and West European societies using alphabets typically claim 99% literacy figures.

Japanese may be only a "partly ideographic writing system", but they will still learn a similar number of characters as Chinese people (I would guess at least two-thirds) while still maintaining 99% literacy, so I don't think the characters are the problem.
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