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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5880 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 1 of 5 24 April 2008 at 10:54am | IP Logged |
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Okay, i was wondering about this question Prof. Arguelles
Could you please answer it, thanks in advance. If there was a language (this is fictional by the way) which had every resource, Rosetta Stone, Pimsleur, FSI, plenty of books in the language, TY, Linguaphone, Michel Thomas, podcasts in the language, Audiobooks in the language, University courses, plenty of teachers in your area, It has EVERY resource available in it. What would be your method? What programs/Books/courses would you use? How much time would you take over it? Give us an insight into your perfect language learning scenario please. Thank you very much. Sean 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7056 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 2 of 5 27 April 2008 at 6:57pm | IP Logged |
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Sean, Since this is a fictional fantasy, I will wish the situation into existence for an Indic language like Bengali or Marathi, as these languages have incredibly few resources despite having millions upon millions of speakers and long and rich literary heritages.
So, I am happy to learn that there are now computerized courses and audio-only courses for these languages for those who like that kind of study, but I will still stick to my more textually oriented approach + audio support. Thus, I would avail myself of the following materials in roughly the order in which I list them. 2 didactic bilingual texts + recordings (i.e., Assimil and/or Linguaphone type courses) 1 birds eye overview grammar (i.e., Hugo’s type course) 2 grammatical explanation and exercise books (i.e., TYS and/or Colloquial type course) An educated native with whom to speak An exhaustive set of pattern drill-like exercises (i.e., FSI type course) In-depth reference grammars Detailed comparative grammars of the Indo-Aryan languages A good set of bi-lingual texts of native literature Good, clear, large-type original texts + audio (i.e., audiobooks for the blind) Good dictionaries First I would shadow my way through the “Assimil” course. Given my background in Sanskrit and Hindi, I believe I could probably treat it as a whole rather than working through it lesson by lesson. Once I began to feel comfortable with the material, I would quickly go through the “Hugo” overview, then do the “Linguaphone” course globally. When I started to grow familiar with that material as well, I would a) continuously cycle through it all by means of shadowing, b) begin to transcribe it as per the scriptorium, and c) work through a number of grammar translation books in succession (the “TYS” and/or “Colloquial” courses). This would probably total at least some 360 hours of work, or an hour a day for a year at an ideal pace, though it could be certainly be condensed into more hours a day for fewer months. At that point it would be nice and profitable to have a partner for short by frequent and substantive face to face conversations – not a teacher per se, but a model for correction and correctness. Should I notice any regular patterns of difficulty in expressing myself, I would try to iron them out with “FSI” type pattern drills and/or chanting of grammatical paradigms taken from reference grammars, which I would then in any case begin to devour. Likewise, to provide good fuel for conversations and material for questions, this would be the time to begin reading bi-lingual texts and progressing from there to originals, ideally with audio as well as textual narrative. After a second year of 60 minutes per day, (i.e., 720 hours all together) I believe I could probably begin to read texts on the order of historical textbooks or novels for adolescents and, using dictionaries profitably at this level, grow naturally as a reader. Within another two years of 60 minutes each and every single day (i.e., 1440 hours), I believe I could probably be reading literature of the highest caliber with relative ease and pleasure. These estimated times reflect my cumulative experience as a language learner, and with Hindi and Sanskrit in particular, in that I apply them to class II/III languages here. So, provide the materials and I will somehow budget the time and happily learn Bengali and Marathi in this fashion! Edited by ProfArguelles on 04 May 2008 at 9:00pm 11 persons have voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6709 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 5 30 April 2008 at 8:34pm | IP Logged |
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Professor,
Some questions arose when reading this interesting topic, questions that may fit an "Ideal Systematic Approach to X" topic better, or even a personal log. However, I choose to post them here as it seems that the method could be used for approaching just any language. So, could the method outlined above be adapted to any language, i.e. is this how you would study, provided that you had access to the materials and were familiar with other languages from the same family? If the language was totally new for you, would the method still be the same (although each stage would probably require more time)? If possible, could you give an approximation of how long it takes for you to get accustomized to the sounds of a language to a satisfactory level before going to the next step ("Hugo" in this case)? Are we talking about weeks, or a month or two? Even longer? By the way, is this blind-shadowing only, or do you also read the Assimil lessons during this initial stage (to catch the fine points et.c. as I remember having read in the old Assimil thread)? Do you also transcribe Assimil, and if so - at which stage? Perhaps the scriptorium method suits Linguaphone better than Assimil? Thanks, Jeff Lindqvist 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7056 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 4 of 5 04 May 2008 at 9:02pm | IP Logged |
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Mr. Lindqvist,
Yes, I suppose this could be applied to pretty much any language. The method would indeed be essentially the same for a totally new language, though it would naturally take longer. For easier, more familiar languages, however, I might skip some of the steps altogether or at least speed through them. I would judge that it was right to move on to the birds eye overview (“Hugo”) stage not so much when I felt comfortable with the sounds to a satisfactory level, but rather when and if I felt a need for some more systematic structure. So, I am sorry, but I cannot give you an accurate approximate time scale – it would really depend on every individual language, and every individual first stage (“Assimil”) course. Blind shadowing? Again, that goes on only as long as you are making progress in understanding more and more on your own with each repetition for languages that are related to those you know already, or as long as you are making phonetic progress in accuracy of echoing with new and different ones. Again, there is no rule of thumb for time, though more likely on a scale of weeks than months. Why do you believe the scriptorium might suit Linguaphone better than Assimil? I would transcribe the latter as well as the former, probably beginning at the beginning when I felt I had begun to digest the first half of the manual and was moving on to masticate the second. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6709 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 5 05 May 2008 at 5:43pm | IP Logged |
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Professor,
Thanks for the reply. I just assumed that there might be something special with Linguaphone since you mentioned that you (as step 3b) for Bengali and Marathi would choose to transcribe that course. I have not had any closer look at any other Linguaphone course than Cúrsa Gaeilge, but spontaneously feel that the content is slightly more "solid" than in at least the first lessons in Assimil (although transcribing even the most basic sentences definitely has its merits). However, this may be comparing apples and oranges here, with different methods as well as languages. Again, thanks. Jeff Lindqvist 1 person has voted this message useful |
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