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Can our accents be distinguished by Jap? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 1518 days ago 417 posts - 1 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 1 of 12 17 May 2008 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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For any foreigners living or having lived in Japan or any Japanese native speakers (Though I doubt there are many on this forum), can Japanese people distinguish the place of origin of second-language speakers of european origin? Can an average Japanese person, when a European communicates in Japanese identify the speaker's mother tongue and country on hearing the European's Japanese speach? Or are those lands and languages just too foreign for a Japanese speaker to identify? For example, I myself, being a European, could never be able to distinguish the mother tongues of English speaking, say, Indians, Africans, ect... That is because those so foreign language's people's accents just blur into one acoording to my ears. I could never tell if a person was from Turkey, Iran, Israel, Arabia, ect... just be listening to their English language discourse. The reason would be that I have never had any exposure to any of those languages.
My question is, could a Japanese person easily distinguish between an English, American, Swedish, Finnish, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Slavic speaker? Or do all theses accents just blend into one generic European accent just like most linguistically ingorant westerners wouldn't be able to distinguish between East Asian accents? More specifically, are any of the European accents more salient from the perspective of Japanese ears? One reason why I asked this question is that in Europe I never dared myself to lie about my nationality when confronted by the average rude English speaking foreigner who is anxious to show off with their English jet still haven't taken the hint that English isn't wanted. I would always tell the truth that I am an English speaker and when the bombardment of poorly spoken, ear ripping, pain causing, amost unintelligible English was released, just ignore it and continue speaking the target language. However, when I am in Japan, since English is the most popular foreign language (to the detriment of Anglophone language learners), concealing my own identity may be helpfull in repelling those pesky show offs who assume that every white European has skill in English, and morover, that everyone wishes to converse in English. If they cannot accurately distinguish between European accents, I will be prepared to hide my origin and be unable to understand English. With the whole world seemingly opening their doors and welcoming the English language, it seems that serious language learners in this day and age must take drastic measures to ensure that they can immerse themselves completely in the target language without being pestered by foreigners who pull off a switcheroo on the learner. | ||||||
 Jiwon Diglot Moderator Korea, SouthRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 1205 days ago 1335 posts - 106 votes  Speaks: Korean*, English Studies: GermanB1, Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 12 18 May 2008 at 12:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm not sure about Japanese, but when it comes to Korean, yes, it's VERY VERY hard to discern the nationality of any Europeans who speak with very thick accent.. Although I can get a grasp of whether they speak a Germanic or Romance language.
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 Captain Haddock Diglot Pro Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 1537 days ago 2269 posts - 320 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 12 18 May 2008 at 3:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've asked Japanese about this, and they generally cannot tell the difference between European accents. A strong French accent might stand out, but I'm not even sure about that one.
I have faked being German once or twice, but being used as an English practice dummy is generally not a problem in Japan, especially once you can hold your own in a conversation. Edited by Captain Haddock on 18 May 2008 at 3:36am | ||||||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 1518 days ago 417 posts - 1 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 4 of 12 18 May 2008 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hey that seems cool! The inability to distinguish between the accents seems like an advantage for the learner doesn't it? Thanks for your feedback and for sharing your experiences. Maybe I will lie about my origin if I feel "threatened" by some Eigo Bandit.
So you said that the French accent is a little more salient in Japan. Do you know how salient are the Slavic languages? Maybe I will claim to be a Slavic speaker. Maybe of Slovakian or Croatian (Some of the less utilized languages). Or maybe I will claim to speak Estonian as nobody in Japan will have even heared of it! By the way, how salient is Spanish? I know Spanish pretty well but fear that some Japanese may know it as I have heared that it is quite popular, at least relatively. Maybe that world language would be a bad choice for the purpose of concealment. Also with regards to concealing one's own nationality for the sake of avoiding English, it is easy to do in situations like restaurants, shops, streets, ect... But when one enters a communal environment like a martial arts club for example, would it probably be wise to maintain honesty? Is it always better to be completly honest with people who you repeatedly see on a personal level? In that case, how would one recommend to express that English isn't wanted during the stay in Japan. I remember in the Judo club in Spain, all the people were Spanish speakers who didn't ever use English except for one guy who used to annoy me with English from time to time. I just ignored him, though I felt rude. But I was sick of it. I never replied in English as not to encourage him. Also regarding rejection of an Eigo Bandit in Japan, bearing in mind cultural factors, would it be offensive just to say, 英語で話したくない ? How would one reject the molestation of an Eigo Bandit? Thanks for the feedback Jiwon. You too mentioned that it is extremely difficult to distinguish between European speakers. However, distinction is possible between Romance language and Germanic language speakers. Could you describe the difference? What characteristics are evident allowing one to discern between the two groups? Also to the residents in Japan, how is the stardard of the English of most Japanese? Is it quite poor? Very poor? Do many Japanese people even care about learning English? Would it be true to say that Japan for most part is a monolingual country? By the way my destination for my immersion course this summer is Gifu. I seek for true, total immersion. | ||||||
| Earle Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 1084 days ago 269 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Norwegian, Spanish | Message 5 of 12 18 May 2008 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
I love it! Battling that old assumption that their English just must be better than your grasp of whatever their native language is, remains a constant. I speak German very well, accented locally, if I wish. Nevertheless, I've had the people I've been carrying on a lucid conversation with immediately switch to very broken English, as soon as I tell them that I'm American... | ||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Pro Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 1537 days ago 2269 posts - 320 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 12 19 May 2008 at 7:17am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes. So long as you begin your relation with someone speaking Japanese, they will always think of you as their "Japanese-speaking foreign friend" rather than their "foreign friend who knows some Japanese".
English in Japan is a bit like French in Western Canada; most study it in school, but there's no need for it in daily life beyond some specific business needs which can usually be handled by translators anyway, so only self-motivated language learners pursue it to fluency. In college, where language is taken somewhat more seriously, other languages seem to be nearly as popular as English. Most of my normal acquaintances (i.e. non-work-related) speak little or even no English at all, including those just out of high school or college. And even among my professional translator colleagues, nearly all of whom have lived abroad, only one ever attempts to actually speak English. In other words, Japan's a great place to be immersed in another rich language. Gifu is a beautiful prefecture. Edited by Captain Haddock on 19 May 2008 at 7:20am | ||||||
| Aritaurus Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 1343 days ago 197 posts - 2 votes Speaks: Cantonese, English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin, Spanish | Message 7 of 12 19 May 2008 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I remember when I was in Japan, I was with a mixed crowd of people with a Japanese girl , a few other Canadians and one American. I can mimik an Australian accent so I did that as a joke and everyone in the table laughed quite hard except for the Japanese girl. I then asked her if she could tell the difference between the way I normally talk and how I mimiked the Australian accent. She told me she didn't even know I was trying to mimik another accent.
Edited by Aritaurus on 19 May 2008 at 11:50pm | ||||||
 Keith Diglot Moderator JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 1546 days ago 517 posts - 16 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 12 26 May 2008 at 6:34am | IP Logged | |||||
If you say that in Japanese, you will be too direct. There's no need to be direct with the Japanese. They spend their whole lives figuring out what other people aren't saying. If someone doesn't know that you speak English, you could pretend to not know English. If they know you speak English, then you could answer them in Japanese. But I wonder what you are going to do when you don't know how to say what you want to say in Japanese. If you are being rude and then suddenly ask them for help, they might just say to you ふ〜んだ。 |
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