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J-Learner’s Hebrew year

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J-Learner
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 5789 days ago

556 posts - 636 votes 
Studies: Yiddish, English*
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 113 of 153
27 October 2008 at 1:44pm | IP Logged 
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Edited by J-Learner on 24 July 2009 at 9:06am

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Lemanensis
Bilingual Pentaglot
Groupie
Switzerland
hebrew.ecott.ch
Joined 5683 days ago

73 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: French*, English*, German, Spanish, Swedish
Studies: Modern Hebrew

 
 Message 114 of 153
28 October 2008 at 4:55am | IP Logged 
Hi Josh,

Have a search for Harel Moyal, Shiri Maimon, Yehonathan Gatro, and Eric Berman too.
You can find them all on YouTube.

Take care.

Lemanensis
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J-Learner
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 5789 days ago

556 posts - 636 votes 
Studies: Yiddish, English*
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 115 of 153
28 October 2008 at 2:08pm | IP Logged 
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Edited by J-Learner on 24 July 2009 at 9:06am

1 person has voted this message useful



J-Learner
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 5789 days ago

556 posts - 636 votes 
Studies: Yiddish, English*
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 116 of 153
28 October 2008 at 3:14pm | IP Logged 
1

Edited by J-Learner on 24 July 2009 at 9:06am

1 person has voted this message useful



Lemanensis
Bilingual Pentaglot
Groupie
Switzerland
hebrew.ecott.ch
Joined 5683 days ago

73 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: French*, English*, German, Spanish, Swedish
Studies: Modern Hebrew

 
 Message 117 of 153
29 October 2008 at 2:20am | IP Logged 
J-Learner wrote:

I have in my possession the Barron's 501 Hebrew verbs book and find that it is good but for my style it has not proved useful so far. I have scanned in 2 verbs that I know some of already and will continue finding somewhat familiar ones to do the same with.

Basically the method I am experimenting with is repetition spoken and written. Spaced repetition of sorts but without any use of software - all manual. I have put some of the techiniques of memorizing poetry into this idea.

I seek to master one verb every 2 weeks. This may seem like a long time but by the time I have 10 pa'al verbs understood thoroughly I will never need to struggle for a form. After pa'al I will move onto the next most common forms. Occasionally I will study an irregular verb. I will make sure that after finishing the main conjunctions I will continue with irregulars so as to memorize them all as is really necessary. Also, after improving with this method I may not need to repeat for the 5 days I have set for the beginning. This may come sooner or later. I think my audio memory is excellent and it will be my guiding strength.


P.S. - I have just found the first 17 verbs I will be using. I hope to finish them by around the end of the year. I think after a while I can speed this process up to do several a day. perhaps I can memorize the whole book by the end of next year? Worth trying because even knowing half of this book would be a massive acheivement.


This is a coincidence. I've been irritated at my knowledge of verbs in particular and have decided on something similar. I think Barrons is so scary, with its 886 pages and 1580 verbs I really didn't know where to start, and I couldn't find a list of the 50 most useful verbs anywhere. Though I did find a list of 48 that were perhaps not my choice but could be a starting point, at http://pagesperso-orange.fr/babel-site/. I also liked the simplified lay-out.

I've decided to tackle the relatively easy present tense first (plus infinitive) in all 48... with one a day, then move on to the past tense, then the future, and finally the imperative. I copied all the present tense forms into BYKI over the weekend - all 188 of them, but I'm working from paper too. Four verbs done so far (in just the present), and it's not too much at one time, though I haven't had time to use BYKI yet for more than just the 'Review' stage.

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zhiguli
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 6200 days ago

176 posts - 221 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Mandarin

 
 Message 118 of 153
29 October 2008 at 5:05am | IP Logged 
I've mentioned this book (which you can see parts of online) in another thread, IMHO it's a lot better than those 501 verbs books because it treats them in a more systematic way. It lists verbs and common nouns/derivatives by root, so it takes some getting used to but it's well worth the effort. (Another plus is that it shows the prepositions that each verb governs, information you can't find in a lot of dictionaries)
This way you don't need to learn every verb alone, just the basic binyanim and a handful of defective root verbs, plus the most common exceptional ones (Glinert's grammar covers these) and things like the placement of dagesh, how guttural consonants change vowels, behaviour of weak consonants, etc. It sounds like a lot but there are things in common between the different conjugations and hence - shortcuts. With a little practice you could realistically learn to conjugate almost any verb on your own in just a few months.


Lemanensis wrote:
I think Barrons is so scary, with its 886 pages and 1580 verbs I really didn't know where to start, and I couldn't find a list of the 50 most useful verbs anywhere. Though I did find a list of 48 that were perhaps not my choice but could be a starting point, at http://pagesperso-orange.fr/babel-site/. I also liked the simplified lay-out.


The Maskilon book lists 158 paradigms, but you can get away with knowing a lot less.
A good list of the most important ones can also be found in the appendix to Coffin's grammar.

Edit: another book of verbs, it's free, but in French, and not exactly the most user-friendly: http://shorashon.free.fr/

Edited by zhiguli on 29 October 2008 at 5:06am

1 person has voted this message useful



Lemanensis
Bilingual Pentaglot
Groupie
Switzerland
hebrew.ecott.ch
Joined 5683 days ago

73 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: French*, English*, German, Spanish, Swedish
Studies: Modern Hebrew

 
 Message 119 of 153
29 October 2008 at 5:43am | IP Logged 
zhiguli wrote:
I've mentioned this book (which you can see parts of online) in another thread, IMHO it's a lot better than those 501 verbs books because it treats them in a more systematic way. It lists verbs and common nouns/derivatives by root, so it takes some getting used to but it's well worth the effort. (Another plus is that it shows the prepositions that each verb governs, information you can't find in a lot of dictionaries)
This way you don't need to learn every verb alone, just the basic binyanim and a handful of defective root verbs, plus the most common exceptional ones (Glinert's grammar covers these) and things like the placement of dagesh, how guttural consonants change vowels, behaviour of weak consonants, etc. It sounds like a lot but there are things in common between the different conjugations and hence - shortcuts. With a little practice you could realistically learn to conjugate almost any verb on your own in just a few months.


That's encouraging... in a strange way (a few months??) But thanks for the suggestion.
I personally don't like the structure, at least not for someone at my level. I think it's probably great for advanced students but for 'advanced beginner' or 'lower intermediary' students like me it's not direct enough. I'm used to learning languages (Hebrew is my 11th - the 9th foreign language) but I still don't find Glinert's explanations too straightforward for a beginner.

I'm quite surprised that none of the books I've looked at so far takes the approach you describe in Maskilon but for a reduced number of basic verbs that learners can simply learn off by heart, as with every other language I've ever studied. I don't know whether it's just because it hasn't been done or whether it cannot be done that way for Hebrew.

How old is the 501 you're using because some of the things you describe for Maskilon are available in 501 - with root, derivative, prepositions and examples.


zhiguli wrote:

Edit: another book of verbs, it's free, but in French, and not exactly the most user-friendly: http://shorashon.free.fr/


Thanks. This is fine for me in French, though as you say it's not the most user friendly! And the site has those awful pop-ups that won't go away.
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J-Learner
Senior Member
Australia
Joined 5789 days ago

556 posts - 636 votes 
Studies: Yiddish, English*
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 120 of 153
29 October 2008 at 3:04pm | IP Logged 
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Edited by J-Learner on 24 July 2009 at 9:06am



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