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Shadowing: yay or nay?

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
Poll Question: Do you shadow regularly?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
59 [52.21%]
54 [47.79%]
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67 messages over 9 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 8 9 Next >>
Tahl
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 4047 days ago

26 posts - 44 votes
Speaks: English*, Welsh
Studies: Spanish, Finnish

 
 Message 57 of 67
15 April 2013 at 2:50am | IP Logged 
I came upon this old thread in trying to solve something that baffles me: if you are
trying to shadow out loud, how on earth do you hear the details of the speaker's speech
clearly over the sound of your own voice? I've tried shadowing (without the text in
front of me) both with and without headphones, and given up in frustration within five
minutes each time. Am I missing a trick?
1 person has voted this message useful



berabero89
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4401 days ago

101 posts - 137 votes 
Speaks: English, Amharic*
Studies: Spanish, Japanese, French

 
 Message 58 of 67
15 April 2013 at 3:03am | IP Logged 
Tahl wrote:
I came upon this old thread in trying to solve something that baffles me: if
you are
trying to shadow out loud, how on earth do you hear the details of the speaker's speech
clearly over the sound of your own voice? I've tried shadowing (without the text in
front of me) both with and without headphones, and given up in frustration within five
minutes each time. Am I missing a trick?


When I shadow, I do so for an Assimil lesson around 10 times. Usually, after shadowing 2
or 3 times, I listen to the audio once or twice without shadowing to really hear the
details and then continue shadowing until the last time I listen to it (I become silent
again at this point). This probably isn't part of the theory behind shadowing but this is
what's helped me.
1 person has voted this message useful



kujichagulia
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 4606 days ago

1031 posts - 1571 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese, Portuguese

 
 Message 59 of 67
15 April 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged 
I've been researching shadowing for the past few days, and I've had the same trouble with Tahl when trying shadowing.

I've come to the conclusion that the only way that a person can do shadowing is to memorize the material, to know it in and out, to be able to recite it, before attempting to shadow.... or at least you have to have heard it so many times that it has completely become stuck in your head.

The only way I can shadow is after I have memorized the piece, line by line, and can recite it without the audio and/or looking at the paper. Then shadowing is just a matter of working on my production.

I think shadowing is effective, but the bigger question for me is, is it worth the time investment? Surely shadowing is not the only way to improve upon your speaking and listening skills.

Edited by kujichagulia on 15 April 2013 at 3:32pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Gala
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4309 days ago

229 posts - 421 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Italian

 
 Message 60 of 67
15 April 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged 
I find it utterly impossible and extremely frustrating and unpleasant to attempt. I can't
even do it in English, and definitely think that any benefit I might get from it (and I'm
not convinced that there is any) would not justify the amount of time and misery it would
take for me to get the hang of it.

I too think that the poll results probably include "yes" votes for a fair number of
people that think shadowing = listen + repeat.
1 person has voted this message useful



Majka
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
kofoholici.wordpress
Joined 4416 days ago

307 posts - 755 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, German, English
Studies: French
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 61 of 67
15 April 2013 at 4:23pm | IP Logged 
Shadowing of unknown text is possible and is (mostly) a thing of habit.

Interpreters go even one step further - they translate instead of repeating (well, they usually start to shadow the text and stretch their wings further with time...).

Ideal conditions for shadowing:
- no noise around you ...walk in the park or forest, if you can :)
- the audio is louder than your voice ...speak clearly but in a low voice
- don't start shadowing radio news broadcasts - start with Assimil, Linguaphone or audiobook ...these all should be slightly slower then natural speech, but not unnaturally slow

Few tips if you have problems when starting:

- with Assimil, start in the beginning and don't cut the pauses out - shorten them (Audacity can do it for you) or leave them for now.
- use the "listen and repeat" method first
- for second try, listen to a half of sentence (roughly), start repeating and listen to the rest of sentence
- next step: "true" shadowing - start repeating as soon as you can, listening for the rest of sentence. Use the pauses to catch your breath, to rest.

And don't overdo it - shadowing shouldn't leave you exhausted. At extreme, half of an hour is maximum you can do under ideal conditions. 15 minutes is better, 5 minutes 3 times a day is the best.

Start with easy audio, try it for a week or two for a 5 minutes a day or every other day. You may find that it suddenly "clicks". But don't worry if you cannot do it - the "listen and repeat" method done right is only slightly less intensive.
4 persons have voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 5140 days ago

3971 posts - 7747 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 62 of 67
15 April 2013 at 8:19pm | IP Logged 
As far as pronunciation is concerned, I prefer to do what I call "Spontaneous Shadowing": instead of learning and repeating a given text, which I find both boring and time-consuming, I prefer to listen to various materials I enjoy and to repeat, spontaneously, any phrase I recognize, effectively mimicking not just the sounds and the intonation, but also the meaning, the intent and the mood it was set it. Eventually, common phrases become second nature and can be uttered in the right context and with the appropriate modulations.
4 persons have voted this message useful



Gala
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4309 days ago

229 posts - 421 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Italian

 
 Message 63 of 67
15 April 2013 at 10:59pm | IP Logged 
Arekkusu wrote:
As far as pronunciation is concerned, I prefer to do what I call
"Spontaneous Shadowing": instead of learning and repeating a given text, which I find
both boring and time-consuming, I prefer to listen to various materials I enjoy and to
repeat, spontaneously, any phrase I recognize, effectively mimicking not just the
sounds and the intonation, but also the meaning, the intent and the mood it was set it.
Eventually, common phrases become second nature and can be uttered in the right context
and with the appropriate modulations.


If you are listening to something you've never heard before, and you repeat a phrase
from it, you couldn't repeat the complete phrase unless the speaker had already
finished saying it.....which means you are *not shadowing,* you are listening and
repeating.

Which is great, that's what I do, and I often do it just as you describe (while
watching Spanish TV and movies.) I think it's a great technique. But shadowing, which
involves *talking over* what you're listening to, as simultaneously as you can manage,
is a technique that I fail to see the point of. What is supposed to be gained by
talking over instead of simply repeating?
1 person has voted this message useful



Arekkusu
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
Joined 5140 days ago

3971 posts - 7747 votes 
Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto
Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian

 
 Message 64 of 67
15 April 2013 at 11:16pm | IP Logged 
Shadowing was originally -- and still is -- a technique used by interpreters whereby one repeats what is heard, live.

Talking over, as you mention, might be a technique some people use, but frankly, because of the mental planning that goes into producing sounds, this means that you are preparing for sounds before you hear them, which is pretty much the same as doing it on your own without any feedback. And if anyone is going to mention that hearing what you are saying is feedback, then I'd add that because you would be too busy concentrating on what you're going to say next, most if not all of that feedback would go right over your head.


3 persons have voted this message useful



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