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The Mind Portal...The Language Project!!! | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Jozen-Bo Newbie United States Joined 5749 days ago 35 posts - 35 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Finnish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Japanese, Swedish, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 1 of 84 28 July 2008 at 10:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hello,
I thought I would open this thread here, because I feel that it may be of interest to those interested in language learning, such as myself. I have been involved in researching a time map calendar called the mind portal to fully explore and understand its potentials; and this has lead me to begin investigating and performing a language learning experiment to test some theories that have slowly emerged in my mind. What the Mind Portal is isn't actually the focus of this thread, but rather, what can it do, and more specifically, can it be used for learning languages? I believe it can be, so I have been carefully considering how this can be done. To help one get an idea of what this experiment involves I will place a picture of what the mind portal calendar map looks like: 
(click on thumbnail to enlarge) 
By jozenbo at 2008-01-22 (A blank Time Map, which can be used however one so desires and sees fit) Its basic format is to be used as a calendar to keep track of time and investigate patterns generated in time, though the means to explore it are many, as this map can be placed onto a wheel and spun to produce new patterns and to inform in new ways. Since there are no dates, its doesn't have to be used as a calendar and can easily be converted into an information board. This is where the basis for the language learning project begins, as I am now preparing 3 maps to see how far they can take me as I seek to understand and speak this language. After considering many factors I decided to prepare them as follows... The 1st map features the alphabet in the middle ring with introduction word groups stemming to the outer rings. Since its a spiral, the path never loops like a circle, it retains the quality of linear progression for symbol reading, though curving them a little. In each space at the top I write in a word or phrase from the introduced language, in this case...Finnish, and below it in the same box the English equivalent. The first map makes no attempts to explain the rules, simply introduces some basic words (I borrowed the groups from a text book for another language), approximately 800 words by hand or 1000-3000 words by print. The 2nd map features charts, adds a few new words, and begins to add a few more phrases. The 3rd map includes more charts, more words, and more sentences. More maps could be made to expand vocabulary or add more information, though for the time being I am curious to find out how far 3 maps can go. These maps are reviewed in many different ways to use and operate, from looking over the information, to slowly rotating and reading the information, to increasing the speed, to spinning at full speed. The information trickles into the mind in different ways thereby. This is done regularly for a number of days and used as a complement to the normal means of learning to accelerate progress tremendously. Because my time is so limited, I won't be performing an intensive study by normal means, though I will be reading, speaking out loud, and practicing some of the rather very important parts of learning the language. Depending on how successful this experiment is, or if it is; this could reveal a new means of gathering information and change the world. I do not intend to finish with Finnish if this is a success, but will be collecting maps of many languages and seeking to learn as many as possible in as short amount of time as possible. This project is open to any who volunteer to become a part of it, as to fully conduct it I need to gather many maps of many different languages, and if others focus on developing maps in different languages then a great deal of time can be saved for me to acquire them and put them to use as well. Here's how it works, if someone decides to be a part of this experiment, they need to produce a language map, then scan and swap the PDF digital information over the internet. I won't be giving out the PDFs (with finished language patterns on them) for free, nor selling them for money, only by trading. There are currently 2 other people involved, meaning within the next year at least 3 other language sets could possibly be prepared, so if this information is swapped then all three of us have access to more material then one could provide alone. So if anyone wants to hop on board, here is the place to do it! I will answer any questions provided, though I might not get to them immediately because I am extremely busy most of the time. I will make it a point to frequently check up and see what pops up and all participants are welcome. Here is a link where this map can be downloaded for free, you'll need to print this out full sized if you decide to participate. Also in this link there is a Manual I wrote in two parts free for the downloading, its an introduction manual that gives a very general explanation of the possibilities herein. The 36x38 files are for American printing standards (for full sized prints), and the A0 are for European printing standards. Feel free to download these free files if you want. Thank You! http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=4230e17dbc5fe0168c9e7c56b a37815faf9217640d402c70 (Link to free Map downloads) Sincerely, Jozen-Bo :) Edited by Jozen-Bo on 28 July 2008 at 10:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5820 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes  5 sounds | Message 2 of 84 28 July 2008 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Please forgive my ignorance, but why would it be more convenient to use circular charts of the sort described above, rather than normal rectangular pages? If the idea is to enable randomized revision order, then flash cards can do the same.
Reading this thing will be tiresome. Feeding it with information will be tedious. Also I can't fail to notice that the inner cells become really tiny, making half of the diameter unsuitable for handwriting of any sort. Sorry for being a critic but i don't think it's practical. It might be an interesting experiment though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jozen-Bo Newbie United States Joined 5749 days ago 35 posts - 35 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Finnish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Japanese, Swedish, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 3 of 84 28 July 2008 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
It's not convenient to produce, unless one has a good program to speed things up. However to read it as you turn it at various speed rates can make it very convenient for viewing the information. The idea involves training the mind to perceive and memorize at a faster rate, and allowing the information to sink into the subconscious as the spin reaches rates that the conscious can no longer perceive. This is mixed with standard conscious study to accelerate the process of absorbing the new information. After spinning this thing for some time, the mind begins to readjust itself in several notable ways. First, it begins to see the same motion as going by slower, thus it is able to follow and transmit bits of information to the conscious directly more and more as it adjusts. Second, it begins to see groups at once, and as these groups are viewed the signal burns through the eyes (normal of all vision) to leave prints in the mind. As these prints get reinforced (the rotations reinforce again and again) they eventually become accessible. Depending on how one focuses, one can see all the words at once, focus on groups, or single out one word at at time. These possibilities are present whenever the spinning wheel is observed, so it offers to do things that the flash cards can't.
Reading this is easy if it isn't spinning, its an exercise if it is, and if this is the case...what is it exercising and what is getting stronger by this? If the mind can be exercised and made to gather and memorize information at an increasing rate, by these means, then over time each successive language will begin to get easier to learn and be done so faster then the previous. That the mind tires to view this in spin is a very good thing. Though, the act of reading it is typically done passively when viewing it in spin, no effort is made to read the lists in a chronological manner unless one directs and focuses their mind to stay on the tracks as they wind outward. I already quoted on feeding the information, its about as tedious as it is to do so on ordinary paper, either or, you are writing it out...what's the big difference? Also, the act of writing it out is in itself an exercise, so its not for nothing. I look forward to getting my hands on a set that I didn't prepare myself, so I can test the possibilities of using one of these without setting up the configuration first myself (it affects the experiment ever so slightly...) Good point about the inner cells! Yes, they are small, one of the reasons why the alphabet tends to go there, each character fits perfectly into these cell's. For the maps to follow, I will either use small words (a full sized map can fit smaller words here) or a little white out to make the cell's a little bigger by covering the lines between them. Its easy to get around...
Your criticism was put forth thoughtfully and maturely, no need to apologize, I appreciate your constructive criticism. You might be right, it might not be practical, though until tested with care no one will know. I can't agree or disagree, I suspect that it may be one of the most practical means ever devised, but testing itself is the only way to get the answer. If it works, then yes, it will be one of the most interesting experiments ever conducted, if not, then at least we checked out the possibilities. I'm having fun with it. We will be able to determine this...as I add to my profile here more languages quickly or not... Respectfully, Jozen-Bo Edited by Jozen-Bo on 28 July 2008 at 2:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6336 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 4 of 84 28 July 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This has been tried before in the mid 60's. It didn't work, and it's extremely dangerous, so please be careful.
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5797 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 5 of 84 28 July 2008 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
No, I'm sorry, this thread has to focus on what it is, because no-one's going to use it unless they know what it is. I've had a quick google, and as far as I can see it is something you dreamed up without the backing of scientific theory. You have written a pseudo-scientific "paper" without any references to existing academic thought and you simply asserted lots of claims about it, including:
This makes no sense.
Hang on -- is it a calendar or not?
I have a funny feeling it won't, and I'll explain why in a moment.
I can answer that. On first reading, it appeared to me that the only thing being exercised is being able to read one of these charts, then I made a connection with my piano lessons. Most piano players I know can't improvise. They can't play by ear. They can't play from memory (ie without music in front of them). And they can't play at full speed on first sight. These things are contradictory -- if you can't play at first sight then you must be playing from memory, because you can't be reading the sheet music. As you play faster, you are committing the tune to memory. But somehow the mind associates the tune with the piece of paper -- the manuscript becomes an arbitrary cue. Take the manuscript away, and the performance collapses because the cue -- the association -- is required. If you try to memorise anything from a fixed form, the associated becomes abstract in the same way. I can still picture a sheet of irregular Italian verbs from my high school days, but I'm better with Spanish irregular verbs that were mostly learned individually, bit by bit, without memorisaing charts.
Citation please.
The difference isn't necessary. A lot of us here feel list writing and memorisation is not all that helpful. To be truly learned, a word has to develop associations with what it describes. Words in a list become associated with the list.
Memorising the alphabet doesn't help you say anything or write anything. It is again divorcing form from meaning.
But people aren't likely to try it out unless you give a solid reason to. It's a lot of time to devote to some other internet weirdo's pet project.
When The DaVinci Code came out, anyone who criticised the bad history was told "you can't say that unless you've read it". I know there's no such thing as the Priory of Sion -- it's documented fact. Please don't give us the "do it or you won't know" line -- it makes you look like a charlatan. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rollo the Cat Groupie United States Joined 5820 days ago 77 posts - 90 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Russian, Ancient Greek | Message 6 of 84 28 July 2008 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This could be a useful tool for learning ancient languages. If it spins fast enough, it will create a time-space- vortex, allowing us to travel back to ancient Greece or Rome, where we can have an immersion experience, hearing and speaking the language all day. No longer will we have to study Latin as a "dead" language. I'm ready to give it a try. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| apparition Octoglot Senior Member United States Joined 6436 days ago 600 posts - 667 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), French, Arabic (Iraqi), Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Pashto | Message 7 of 84 28 July 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I usually like trying out crazy learning methods, but I think I'll pass on this one until its progenitor actually has used the method successfully him/herself. Let us know how it goes. Edited by apparition on 29 July 2008 at 4:10pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Makrasiroutioun Quadrilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Canada infowars.com Joined 5892 days ago 210 posts - 236 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Armenian*, Romanian*, Latin, German, Italian Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 8 of 84 28 July 2008 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I second apparition's words.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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