The Mind Portal...The Language Project!!! (Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies) Language Learning Forum

The Mind Portal...The Language Project!!!
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Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies

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Jozen-Bo
Newbie
United States
Joined 5748 days ago
35 posts - 35 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Finnish, French
Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Japanese, Swedish, Russian, Arabic (Written)

Message 33 of 84

30 July 2008 at 10:56am | IP Logged

Cainntear wrote:

Jozen-Bozo wrote:

People, please make up your mind for yourself like adults do and don't let this guy treat you like a baby and tell you how to think or what to do, he's merely confusing his own opinions with facts and apparently believes that is the only opinion that matters.

Why should anyone let you tell them what to do? You're doing the old cult trick: "that person is lying to you -- they're telling you what to do -- don't let anyone tell you what to do (except me)."

Nonsense. I am asking that they decide for themselves and not let you or me decide for them. I am not telling them what to decide, and you shouldn't be either. I never added an 'except me', you are resorting to dishonest arguing tactics...and that is shameful!

----------------------------

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

What are you talking about? The point of a language it to communicate, where do you get these absurd ideas? "The point of a language is to experience things without having to experience them"...WTF? NO...it's to communicate! C.O.M.M.U.N.I.C.A.T.E! And yes, my mother did read bed-time stories...and 'diddums' is not an English word!

Yes, but communicate is a verb most commonly used transitively -- so I ask "communicate what?" When I tell you about my holiday on the Spanish costas, what am I communicating? An experience. I am attempting to induce sensations -- images, feelings, sounds -- in your mind.

Also, this is the second "spelling error" you have highlighted in one of my posts which is nothing of the sort. It may have escaped your notice, but English takes many forms internationally. I assume this is another facet of your trolling.

OK...lets conduct a little quick experiment right now! Imagine two people having sex, really grinding and moaning and groaning. If you want, it could be two girls, a guy and a girl, or two guys, whatever your into. See them naked, see the genitalia connecting, see the rasping of breath, the panting, can you feel it yet?

So...was it good? Did you or anyone else in this world just now get off as they read this description? Is the experience now yours forever? We use language to communicate feelings, ideas, and expressions; but we can never fully transmit the true experience we had using language, it can at best transmit a tiny little fraction.

Calling me a troll doesn't make me one, though I do find it offensive. Where are your manners?
-------------------------

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

You are very confused about what a troll is obviously, since it is impossible for me to troll my own thread, unless I myself lose focus, and the focus is the experiment. Please do not troll my thread with words like loony, fruit-loop, or any other forms of name calling, show some respect and have some decency for other people's ideas and ventures, quite trying to control everyone's opinions with your own. If you choose to add anymore to this thread, I am very much hoping it won't be some irrelevant trollish name-calling comment and that it will be something useful.

You're the one who misunderstand's trolling. I'm flaming you, not trolling. Perhaps I should have accused you of flamebaiting instead -- do you prefer that word? But it's the same thing: A troll is a user of a newsgroup, forum or message board that posts messages with the intent of inciting an argument or flame-war.
www.studiodog.com/web-jargon.html

Let me guess, misunderstand is considered possessive in Scotland? It's my misunderstand and mine alone, go get your own!

OK...since you mention the magic word INTENT...no, I have no intent of arguing if I don't need to. So, based on YOUR definition, I am neither a troll, nor a flame-baiter. My intent is to share information about the experiment I am doing, and to allow anyone who is interested to participate, because I can get more language maps faster by trading then by making all of them myself. I have no desire whatsoever to be wasting my time defending myself from the vicious words and insults.

I will defend myself and my reasoning, given that you are trying really, really hard to make sure no one else gets involved in this experiment. I am losing way too much valuable time arguing with you when I could be getting those maps done. You are flat out threatening this experiment as much as you possibly can, and I do not appreciate this at all.

------------------------------

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

I ask at this point that if you don't find this to your interest that you have the decency and courtesy not to weigh it down with opinions that attempt to undermine and steer other people's opinions, and let them make their minds up for themselves.

No, this group has the express goal of advising other members of the best ways of learning language. It would be to go against the principle of this forum not to try to put people off this silly little game you're playing with other people's time.

WRONG! It would go against the principle of this forum not to find out if this test works or not, as the knowledge would prove valuable either way. I am not playing a game, though I am having fun! I seriously hope you aren't one of the moderators here, who have apparently allowed this thread to continue, because the results WILL be more valuable then merely dismissing it without seeing if it flies or not (to borrow terminology from the brother's plane experiment...). If not, they will be amongst the first to find out, and if so, same case. If I ran these forums, I know I would be very interested to see the results and not the opinions that don't add up to the results.

Also, I am not forcing anyone to do anything. I invite, thats all. The choice isn't mine to make and I respect that magical word we call...FREEDOM.

It's their call...not yours (otherwise this thread would obviously have vanished- though I am backing it up word for word just in case).

-----------------------------

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

Please, I have no interest in hearing criticism that has no constructive thought or reasoning behind it. If you want to share your opinion, please back it up with reasoning or simply don't share it.

Opinion:
Your idea is stupid.
Reasoning:
You have provided no justification for it.

Now, going back to the Wright brothers, they showed diagrams and formulae, and the establishment didn't believe them. The experiment appeared to prove the formulae within certain limits. Dismissing the formulae as incorrect was seemingly proved to be wrong. However, we now know the Orville and Wilbur's figures were wrong -- the formulae didn't take into account the non-linear characteristics of aerodynamics and they assumed that speeds in a scale model were a linear factor of the full size mechanism. In fact, Orville and Wilbur probably only managed to get airbourne thanks to the Ground Effect, which hadn't been noted at that point.

And my point is?

The rejection of the Wright brothers' claims was made on the theory presented. This resulted in a rational debate, and the conclusion of said debate was in a very real sense correct.

You have not presented theory or figures -- merely the subjective experience of one person of dubious sincerity. Therefore it is impossible to present any reasoned counterarguments as there is no theory to counter.

The only reasonable thing to say is that without theory there is no reason to expect it to succeed. Without any reason to expect it to succeed, there is no reason to try.

Finally, you are backing your opinions up. How do I possibly present figures when I am shot down before collecting them. This is a test, its where the justification gathering process begins. If it is successful, the results will provide justification. I didn't say you have to believe this right now. All I am asking is that you let me conduct the tests. Please have some manners and compose yourself.

As to your point, it's not relevant to the test, I see no reason to comment on it at all. It gets nowhere. I really don't care if you think this is stupid, I am not in need of your approval.

The brothers went on with their own experiment and forever changed the world with it. They tested regardless of what the "Cainntears" of their time said, and that is what I am going to do, regardless of what the "Cainntears" of my time say. It this experiment flies, you are going to be choking on your own words, not just eating them. Please, let's not lose anymore time, I now know your opinion...so what?

-----------------------------------

Cainntear wrote:

Now bog off and come back when you have something more interesting to tell us about -- like herpes.

Telling me to bog off is little rude! As if you are my leader...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Dream on! Your reference to herpes is an obvious insult, no subtlety there.

....wait....I am beginning to see the light....YES MASTER CAINNTEAR....I WILL NOW BOG OFF AND RETURN WHEN I HAVE HERPES TO TELL YOU ABOUT IT SO YOU CAN LAUGH AND FEEL GOOD AS YOU TAKE JOY IN OTHER'S SUFFERING TO REMIND YOURSELF YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN YOUR OWN SUFFERING......PLEASE FORGIVE ME MASTER CAINNTEAR.....

Get real...
1 person has voted this message useful

ExtraLean
Triglot
Senior Member
France
languagelearners.myf
Joined 5779 days ago
897 posts - 880 votes

Speaks: English*, French, Spanish
Studies: German

Message 34 of 84

30 July 2008 at 10:56am | IP Logged

Dear Mr Bo,

I am afraid that I will have to politely decline your request "to hop on board". I feel, that at this time in my language learning adventures, your overly large, cumbersome and downright odd method of learning has no place in my study regime.

I wish you all the success in the world for your ambitions, even though I have my doubts about your methodology, goals, and sincerity.

With my most sincere salutations,

Thom.

*Edit: after reading your previous post, I can not help but feel that perhaps this isn't the most appropriate forum for you. I politely suggest that you peddle your wares elsewhere.

Edited by ExtraLean on 30 July 2008 at 10:59am
1 person has voted this message useful

Message 35 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:06am | IP Logged

Ortho wrote:

The focus of this thread appears to be for you to write long monologues about your theories of the universe, and the dubious link that you are claming with language learning is just an excuse for you to spill the contents of your mind out in public, as near as I can tell.

You are not reading with care, and not seeing the order. I never brought up those links, someone else did, and I would have preferred they didn't. Your accusation is false. Plus, I had not intention of writing that long monologue, it was in response to someone else who was putting up the links right and left...I figured I'd let the rabbit out of the hat, get everything in the open, so there this linking would finally end. I doubt that you are a psychologist, considering how wrong your assessment of my intent for being here is.

And you spelled claiming wrong, let's not forget the motto:
"If you can't spell it, don't write it".

Ortho wrote:

And stop "correcting" other peoples' language mistakes until after you can properly use "your" and "you're". Even if you were right (you were wrong both times), it's still impolite.

I am dyslexic, what's your excuse?

Ortho wrote:

Also, here's a constructive suggestion: Have you considered making flash animations of this instead of going through the long process of making a big piece of paper and then having only one of them? You could test whatever it is you're trying to test by making a spiraling flash animation and then distributing it endlessly, until whatever you're trying to accomplish happens, and it would be no sweat to change the word lists on the things without constructing another big piece of paper.

Yeah, have you heard of the paper screen monitors (soon to be released)? Where do you think this is going? I have already writing about this possibility and the future will be seeing it's manifestation. Though, thanks for the suggestion nonetheless.

Edited by Jozen-Bo on 30 July 2008 at 11:32am
1 person has voted this message useful

Ortho
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 6135 days ago
58 posts - 60 votes

Message 36 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:18am | IP Logged

Jozen-Bo wrote:

You are not reading with care, and not seeing the order. I never brought up those links, someone else did, and I would have preferred they didn't. Your accusation is false. Plus, I had not intention of writing that long monologue, it was in response to someone else who was putting up the links right and left...I figured I'd let the rabbit out of the hat, get everything in the open, so there this linking would finally end. I doubt that you are a psychologists, considering how wrong your assessment of my intent for being here is.

Do you not see that there is no content whatsoever in the above? I'll try to explain. What you need to do is to pay great attention to what I am saying here. Now, I don't want to say this, but I am forced into it by your lack of understanding of what I am saying. Your assertions above are simply not true. Perhaps if you had a better understanding of the context in which I was making my point, and if you had a better understanding of the oneness underlying all creation, and indeed of course underlying all language we would all be able to work together, in the unity of creation, to, as you say, get the rabbit out of the bag, not hide the ham in the closet, you know, clear all the air (can you FEEL the air? I mean, when you inhale, can you feel it, man?). I doubt that you are as wise as you are claiming to be, seeing as how you have presented no credentials and are clearly not able to separate the actual words I am using from the INTENT behind those words, back behind the curtain of pretend reality where everything is oneness and the pudding is free.

Quote:

And you spelled claiming wrong, let's not forget the motto:
"If you can't spell it, don't write it".

Ortho wrote:

And stop "correcting" other peoples' language mistakes until after you can properly use "your" and "you're". Even if you were right (you were wrong both times), it's still impolite.

I am dyslexic, what's your excuse?

My point is that it is impolite to correct other people's spelling errors in discussions on the internet. If you do so and you're right, you're merely a jerk. If you do so and you're wrong, you're a jerk and a moron. In most people's views of this etiquette, it is then fair game for everyone else to attack the spelling and grammar of the spelling and grammar nit.

1 person has voted this message useful

DaraghM
Diglot
Senior Member
Ireland
Joined 5936 days ago
1947 posts - 2923 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian

Message 37 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged

Jozen-Bo,

Best of luck with this truly original method. Unfortunately, I cannot participate, but I'd love to hear back in six months about your successes. Perhaps posting in the multilingual forum will demonstrate your ability, in all the languages you tackle, using this method.

Edited by DaraghM on 30 July 2008 at 11:21am
1 person has voted this message useful

Message 38 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:31am | IP Logged

ExtraLean wrote:

Why do you bother to tell me you are declining? Why not simply say nothing? Why do you feel the need to publicly announce your declination? What is the purpose of that?

If you doubt my methods, my goals, my sincerity; what does this do? It's more opinions, and not results.

Though I notice that you are conducting yourself thoughtfully, so I will say I appreciate that.

As to my beliefs, I am entitled to them, that is, if even more then 60-90% of this world can believe in GOD, which is rather unscientific, yet so important to how history developed. Though, I am not here to discuss my beliefs, I put them on the table so it would be a done deal. Therefor I am hiding nothing.

FOCUS!!!!

EXPERIMENTATION!!!!

RESULTS????

It's that simple...that's what this thread is about.

ExtraLean wrote:

*Edit: after reading your previous post, I can not help but feel that perhaps this isn't the most appropriate forum for you. I politely suggest that you peddle your wares elsewhere.

You FEEL...and it is your feeling. And now you are calling me a peddler(=insult)? I am getting a lot of heat...but I am not selling anything. You not only announce your declination, now you are trying to prevent others from having the option to choose for themselves...I am having my doubts about your own sincerity, despite your politeness.

I FEEL this forum is appropriate, its about learning languages, so wouldn't it be of interest to see if this works or not. If you are a moderator...I have no choice do I... Plus, I intend to mix the means, so what other resources are here may be very valuable for the processes involved.

However you are not a moderator, than I politely decline your suggestion.

------------------------------------------------------------ -------------

If no one helps to defend this thread it will be a matter of time before the moderators are possibly influenced by so many people gaining up on me. So, unless someone speaks out soon, I am predicting that it is possible that I am dismissed, though not by my own choice. I am hoping the moderators don't fold, but I know how the mind works...so if no one steps in and at least defends my right to be here...

So, if there is anyone who is at least open and tolerant of my presence, if not outright interested to see what happens, please let them take a stand now before dissenters overwhelm this thread without ever giving it a chance to reveal if the experiment will succeed or not.

Objective testing please...

Not subjective dismissing...

Thank You,
Jozen-Bo

1 person has voted this message useful

ExtraLean
Triglot
Senior Member
France
languagelearners.myf
Joined 5779 days ago
897 posts - 880 votes

Speaks: English*, French, Spanish
Studies: German

Message 39 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:34am | IP Logged

DaraghM wrote:

He has a point. Get back to us in a few months.

I believe you yourself said that you have better things to do with your time.

Thom.
1 person has voted this message useful

Message 40 of 84

30 July 2008 at 11:41am | IP Logged

Ortho wrote:

Jozen-Bo wrote:

You are not reading with care, and not seeing the order. I never brought up those links, someone else did, and I would have preferred they didn't. Your accusation is false. Plus, I had not intention of writing that long monologue, it was in response to someone else who was putting up the links right and left...I figured I'd let the rabbit out of the hat, get everything in the open, so there this linking would finally end. I doubt that you are a psychologists, considering how wrong your assessment of my intent for being here is.

Can you be more succinct?

Ortho wrote:

Quote:

And you spelled claiming wrong, let's not forget the motto:
"If you can't spell it, don't write it".

Ortho wrote:

And stop "correcting" other peoples' language mistakes until after you can properly use "your" and "you're". Even if you were right (you were wrong both times), it's still impolite.

I am dyslexic, what's your excuse?

OK...I'll give it a break.

I was just observing the motto, what are motto's for these days anyways? I thought maybe the motto served a purpose, so, despite my dyslexia I have been at least trying not to make as many errors as I normally do, and I do normally make a lot of spelling errors because of it. In order to get around it, I have to concentrate harder and reread my material, which shows that I am considerate and thoughtful if I can help it to be.

1 person has voted this message useful

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