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LINGQ All the grammar you need to know | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 13 29 August 2005 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
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WARNING: This thread was started by Steve Kaufmann, publisher of lingq.com. While he discusses general ideas about language learning, the thread frequently refers to his program and website with his trademark modesty. Consider this a meet-the-publisher thread.<br>Administrator
To speak a language well you need to learn how words are used and how they come together to form phrases and sentences. Only a lot of listening and reading can help you learn this. You need to train yourself to notice how the words are used when you listen and read. You need to master the natural phrases of English, in a natural way. If you want to buy a grammar book for reference, buy the smallest one you can find. The more rules of grammar you study, the less you will remember. You only need to know a few basic grammar terms and concepts which are outlined here. Nouns refer to persons and things, like a �car�, a �tree� or a �house�. In English most nouns do not stand alone. Normally an article (the, an) or some other word like �his�, �her� �many�, �both� or �some� will come before the noun. Only if the noun is a general term like beauty, love, money, or honour etc. can it stand alone. Pronouns are words like �he�, �she�, �it� �his�, �her� or �which� and �that� which stand in place of nouns. When you use a pronoun instead of a noun, you must make sure that it is obvious which noun you are referring to. If it is not clear you must use the noun again. Adjectives describe nouns. They may describe the colour, size, degree or any other quality of the noun. You will notice that many adjectives end in �-ate�. �-able� �-ive� -�ing� or �-ed�. Nouns often change into adjectives by adding the letter �y�, like �anger�- �angry�, �thirst�-�thirsty� �fun�-�funny� etc. Sometimes an adjective can change into a noun by adding a �y� as in �difficult� and �difficulty�. So you just have to observe the language and save the words and phrases you want to learn. Prepositions are small words that indicate place, direction and time, such as � in�, �at�, �on�, �by�, beside, before, after etc. Verbs describe actions. Examples are �run�, �talk�, �sit�, �listen� etc. The form of the verb can change depending on when it happened (tense), who did it (person), and a few other factors. Watch carefully for these word forms. Some verbs combine with prepositions and have a special meaning. �Get in�, �get by�, �get with� are just some examples. These verbs are called phrasal verbs because the phrase is a verb. Adverbs describe verbs, adjectives and other adverbs. Adverbs often end in �-ly�. Nouns, verbs and adjectives can become adverbs by adding �-ly�. Watch for the different forms of similar looking words. Sentences almost always include a verb. Sentences can state a positive fact. �This is a book�. �My house is there�. Sentences can state a negative fact. �This is not a book�. �My house is not there�. Sentences can ask a question. �Is this a book?� �Where is your house?� Sentences should usually be as simple as possible. Sentences will often contain logical relationships expressed by words such as �because�, �even though�, �if�,�since�, �more than�, better than� as much as� �the more I eat, the fatter I get� and many more. You will learn these relationships by seeing them often and getting used to them. The logic of languages can be different in different languages. First refer to your own language for the meaning. Then observe the logic of English. Notice how the words are used together. Get used to the relationships of English. Learn how to connect your thoughts and how to start sentences. You can introduce your ideas with phrases like, �in fact�, �on the other hand�, �nevertheless�, �however� or simply �and� or �but� etc. Notice how these words are used. They will make your language more natural. Choose the right word. Work hardest on knowing how words are used. This is more important than grammar rules. The form of a word will change depending on whether the word is a noun, verb, adjective or adverb, singular or plural, and for other reasons. �Enjoy� is a verb, �enjoyment� is a noun. �Act� is a verb, �action� a noun, �active� an adverb and �actively� is an adjective. Notice these differences as you read and listen and save words and phrases. Many words look similar but have different meanings and are used differently. You have to get used to this by listening, reading and reviewing your saved words and phrases. You need to become observant of the language. Wrong word form and wrong choice of words are the most common errors committed by non-native speakers. Become observant of the language and improve your word choice. That is all the grammar you need to know. If you have questions about English ask a native speaker but ask �what does this mean" or "how do I say..� and not �why, or what is the rule�. It is the not the rules of grammar but the practice and exposure to the language that will train you to become fluent Edited by administrator on 17 August 2007 at 2:50pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| flatlandllama Diglot Newbie United States Joined 7095 days ago 35 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English*, Vietnamese Studies: Khmer | Message 2 of 13 30 August 2005 at 12:33am | IP Logged | ||
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i think though that for someone who is completely self studying that when reading or listening to something that would otherwise not make sense with just a dictionary, a grammar will let you make sense of something right away...somewhat like a decoder rather than a rulebook...
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| maxb Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 7189 days ago 536 posts - 589 votes 7 sounds Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 3 of 13 30 August 2005 at 5:57am | IP Logged | ||
I think the need for a grammar book can largely be removed by reading a lot of bilingual texts and/or watching movies in your target language with subtitles in your native language (or in another language you know). Because when you see/hear a sentence you don't understand you can immediately check the translation and thus understand the meaning of it. The problem with using a grammar book is that natural language contains a lot of set phrases and expression which are not always in the grammar book. For instance I wonder if you could use a grammar book and a dictionary to successfully "decode" this sentence "I know precious little about it". If you look up "precious" in the dicitionary you will see that i means valuable. Which is of no help to you in decoding the sentence. So you have to see a translation of the sentence to learn the meaning of it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7200 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 4 of 13 30 August 2005 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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You need to know 100 times more grammar than this. It is true that if you knew only a few basic rules, you could spend your whole life in the country and learn to speak it, but there is no such thing as organic learning in efficient language study.
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| laxxy Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7125 days ago 172 posts - 177 votes Speaks: Ukrainian, Russian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 13 30 August 2005 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, English grammar is uncommonly simple (if your native language is Chinese it might not seem like that, but believe me, it is), so you can get around with what you described for a short while, although you do need to know more. And in most other languages this would be woefully insufficient.
Although, once you do get a firm grip of the language, it is ok not to think about grammar any more because all the important things will become automatic. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7109 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 6 of 13 31 August 2005 at 5:30am | IP Logged | ||
I'm afraid in this instance, I would have to suggest that you should buy a better dictionary. If I looked up precious in an English dictionary I would expect to find its adverbial use listed together with an example. Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7200 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 7 of 13 31 August 2005 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Zhuangzi, is this the approach employed for your "The Linguist" ESL program? I do see how it can work, especially since English grammar is simple, and learning is a matter of word orders and vocabulary.
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| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7034 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 8 of 13 01 September 2005 at 12:02am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe in simplifying grammar. In The Linguist we place emphasis on lots of input of content that is natural and selected by the learner. Our system guides the learner to choose content which has a manageable amount of new vocabulary for each individual learner. Then we have a system for helping the learner acquire new words and phrases in a way that is tied to contexts that he/she has been listening to and reading.
I am not allowed to post URL's here. If I could I would give you all free access in order to get your reactions. Simplifying the grammar is key. Any attempt to learn a language based on trying to remember grammar rules does not work for me. It is preferrable to develop natural reflexes through a systematic exposure to lots of content combined with an efficient learning engine. Our experience is that word choice is a much bigger problem than grammar.Vocabulary trumps grammar. Learn the phrases and you will pick up the grammar, naturally. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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