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Cantonese

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Raincrowlee
Tetraglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6512 days ago
621 posts - 808 votes 
Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French
Studies: Indonesian, Japanese

 
 Message 17 of 28
11 September 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged 
Cainntear wrote:
unzum wrote:
if you ... have trouble distinguishing sounds or pronounciation in a foreign language,

Catch 22.
Someone who has trouble distinguishing sounds often doesn't realise it, because they're unaware they're doing it wrong. This is why I believe concious teaching of pronunciation should be given by default, not only if the student needs it.


I agree with this, and it's one of my biggest problems with Pimsleur. The speakers were speaking naturally, but there were times when I wouldn't have know the sounds they were saying if I hadn't studied Japanese a little before. It's especially difficult in languages where they distinguish aspects that we don't in English, or have letters close but not the same (like unaspirated voiced consonants).

Pimsleur might be brilliant because it focuses on pronunciation, but unless you're a human tape recorder, you have every chance of screwing up sounds not in your native inventory.
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unzum
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
soyouwanttolearnalan
Joined 6724 days ago
371 posts - 478 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 18 of 28
11 September 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged 
Raincrowlee wrote:
Cainntear wrote:
unzum wrote:
if you ... have trouble distinguishing sounds or pronounciation in a foreign language,

Catch 22.
Someone who has trouble distinguishing sounds often doesn't realise it, because they're unaware they're doing it wrong. This is why I believe concious teaching of pronunciation should be given by default, not only if the student needs it.


I agree with this, and it's one of my biggest problems with Pimsleur. The speakers were speaking naturally, but there were times when I wouldn't have know the sounds they were saying if I hadn't studied Japanese a little before. It's especially difficult in languages where they distinguish aspects that we don't in English, or have letters close but not the same (like unaspirated voiced consonants).

Pimsleur might be brilliant because it focuses on pronunciation, but unless you're a human tape recorder, you have every chance of screwing up sounds not in your native inventory.


Ooh, nice point. True, when I was using Pimsleur I was using FSI as well & attending classes, so I got enough pronunciation help from there.

If trauma2020 has already bought Pimsleur he may as well use it, but if he hasn't, then he probably shouldn't buy it, as you can get far better courses for free (FSI), or much less (TY & Colloquial).
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chinese_panda
Newbie
United States
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2 posts - 2 votes

 
 Message 19 of 28
17 September 2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged 
Which one is easier to learn, Cantonese Chinese or Mandarin Chinese ?
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jeff_lindqvist
Diglot
Moderator
SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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4250 posts - 5710 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*, English
Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French
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 Message 20 of 28
17 September 2008 at 5:18pm | IP Logged 
There are more material for Mandarin out there, more speakers et.c. so you probably have better chances learning it. As for which is easier (for the average learner) I cannot say.

Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 05 February 2012 at 11:38pm
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rae0011
Tetraglot
Newbie
Hong Kong
Joined 6178 days ago
10 posts - 15 votes
Speaks: Cantonese*, Mandarin, English, SpanishB2

 
 Message 21 of 28
17 September 2008 at 11:08pm | IP Logged 
Mandarin is more easier to learn since the pronounciation is simple and it is more useful since it is the common language of Chinese people. Cantonese, on the other hand, has a more complicated phonological and writig system but we do have a longer history and more lively vocabulary. If you have any problems in learning Cantonese, you can feel free to ask me ;)
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Deecab
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
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106 posts - 108 votes 
Speaks: English, Korean*
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 22 of 28
18 September 2008 at 12:43am | IP Logged 
I'm sure Cantonese is harder because I've rarely seen a Mandarin speaker speak Cantonese well whereas the other way around is fairly common. My friend from HK is native Cantonese speaker and although he hasn't put much attention to Mandarin, he speaks it conversationally.

Cantonese tones are generally hard for non-tonal language speakers and not easy for even Mandarin speakers as well. And from what I know, Cantonese has a lot more slang and particles that attach feeling because it's a bit closer to old Chinese. Mandarin has evolved a bit on the other hand.

I plan to move to Cantonese once I gain basic fluency in Mandarin. Then I will be able to share my thought better.
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unzum
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
soyouwanttolearnalan
Joined 6724 days ago
371 posts - 478 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 23 of 28
19 September 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged 
chinese_panda wrote:
Which one is easier to learn, Cantonese Chinese or Mandarin Chinese ?


Here's a specific essay dealing with that very same question.
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zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4739 days ago
322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 24 of 28
05 February 2012 at 6:26pm | IP Logged 
unzum wrote:
I wouldn't even bother doing Pimsleur after going through something else. Pimsleur is so
easy and moves at such a slow pace that you will find yourself pretty bored. It's a nice easy introduction for
absolute beginners but if you use Pimsleur after something else you will probably know all the stuff being
taught anyway.

FSI is pretty good. Some of the language may be outdated but you will easily pick up more modern
expressions. Try listening to the podcast Naked
Cantonese, which uses colloquial and modern speech. It's pretty easy to pick up the differences.
The 7 tones thing isn't much of a problem either. Older Cantonese differentiated between the high level tone
and the high falling tone, whereas in Modern Cantonese the high falling tone isn't used as much and you can
mix the two quite freely.
And I'm pretty sure it uses Hong Kong Cantonese but I'm not sure.

trauma2020 wrote:
And as far as the grammar covered in the course, would you say it is comparable to say
another grammar oriented text (Yip and Matthews perhaps)?

Sorry, I haven't read any other grammar books so can't really comment.
But anywaPy, FSI is a really good course. 1,53361,53361">This topic discusses the course in more detail and also provides characters for the
lessons.

If you are more of a visual learner you might want to go for TY instead of Colloquial. TY includes traditional
characters with the dialogues and vocab so you could use that as a source for learning the characters.

You also probably shouldn't throw out all the audio resources either, as Cantonese is mainly a spoken
language and isn't written down that often. I've got a friend who's fluent in Cantonese and Hakka, however
she can't read a word in Chinese. Also, you'd be missing out on some fantastic audio resources like
RTHK's podcasts. Check out the Korean learning one as well,
I personally listen to the Japanese one (language podcasts
here)

Here are some more links:
Cantostories for stories in Cantonese jyutping, characters and 
English translation. Also have a look at Cantophilia, which collects
Cantonese videos and then transcribes and translates them.

Anyway, if you have any more questions feel free to ask!


These are great resources! Thank you for posting.


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