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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6696 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 41 of 162 08 November 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Just a few questions before I start with the Swedish dialogues:
Is it preferable to use common expressions instead of more one closer to the English one? I can give valid translations (almost word-for-word), but feel that it would make the dialogues sound less spontaneous. Of course I can add notes. Is it recommended to add literal translations (such as in the Esperanto version)? How about optional greetings (in the notes, if nothing less)? I discussed this topic with a friend yesterday, and we found that there are quite many Swedish possibilities for the simple "How are you" (and I believe it has come up in one the threads about Swedish language). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Emerald Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom languagedabbler.blog Joined 6032 days ago 316 posts - 340 votes Speaks: Hindi, Gujarati*, English Studies: Spanish | Message 42 of 162 08 November 2008 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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લેસન ૧ - ગુજરાતી [Lesson 1 - Gujarati]
આના: નમસ્તે ટોમ! ટોમ: નમસ્તે આના! તુ કેમ છે? આના: હું મજામા છુ, અને તુ? ટોમ: હું બહુ મજામા છુ, ઘન્ય્વાદ. મારે જ્વુ પડશે હવે. પછી મળીશુ. આના: આવજે. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - લેસન ૨ - ગુજરાતી [Lesson 2 - Gujarati] ટોમ: નમસ્તે, શુ તમે એલેક્સ છો? પહેલો માણસ: ના, હું એલેક્સ નથી. ટોમ: ઓહ, માફ કરજો. પહેલો માણસ: કઇ વાંધો નઇ. .... બીજો માણસ (ટોમ પાસે જઇને): નમસ્તે! ટોમ: નમસ્તે એલેક્સ! હું ટોમ છુ, કેનેડાથી. બીજો માણસ: માફ કરજો, હું એલેક્સ નથી. એ ત્યા ઊભી છે. ટોમ: એલેક્સ સ્ત્રી છે? Notes: In Gujarati - like in German - there is a formal (respectful) way to address people, and a friendly way. In Lesson 1, I have used friendly form તુ (Tu). Depending on which form you use, it also changes certain other words in respectful/friendly form. In Lesson 1, the word for bye, આવજે is also a friendly form. A formal form would be આવજો. In Lesson 2, because these are strangers meeting, I have used the formal form તમે (Tame). In the third sentence of Lesson 2, instead of literally translating "she is there", I have said "she is standing there." The reason for that is because in Gujarati, when talking about a third person, you would use એ which could apply to any sex. It is the context which would tell you what is the sex of the person. By adding "standing" - ઉભી - I am clarifying that it is a woman. If it was a man, it would be ઉભો. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6465 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 43 of 162 08 November 2008 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Since jeff_lindqvist is handling the Swedish part now, I made use of my boyfriend to translate it to Norwegian. We did, however, argue some about the word "kvinne", since I have practically never heard it since coming here. In my opinion, everyone uses "dame", but "kvinne" may be more correct in the situation.
Lesson 1 - Norwegian (Norsk) Anna: Hei Tom! Tom: Hei Anna! Hvordan har du det? Anna: Jeg har det bra, og du? Tom: Veldig bra, takk [som spør](1). Jeg må gå. Snakkes!(2) Anna: Ha det! Ekstra: God morgen! God ettermiddag! God kveld! God natt! NOTATER (1) "Takk som spør" is not really grammatically correct but sometimes used in these kinds of situations. (2) Directly translated as "(we) will speak to eachother". This is a very common thing to say when parting. Lesson 2 - Norwegian (Norsk) Tom is arriving at a train station in another city, where he's supposed to meet with Alex. They know each other from a forum and they're meeting offline for the first time. Tom: Unnskyld (meg), er du Alex? Man 1: Nei, det er jeg ikke. Tom: (Jeg) beklager. Man 1: Ikke noe problem. ... Man 2 (går bort til Tom): Hallo! Tom: Hallo Alex! Jeg er (3) Tom, fra Canada. Man 2: Beklager, jeg er ikke Alex. Hun er der borte. Tom: Hun??? Alex er en kvinne? NOTATER (3) The verb "to be" is very easy to conjugate in Norwegian, just use "er" for all persons in the present tense. Edited by tricoteuse on 08 November 2008 at 2:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5798 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 44 of 162 08 November 2008 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I disagree strongly with this. "I'm good" is no less correct than "I'm well". Consider alternative answers to the question: "Not bad.", "I'm tired.", "I'm doing well." Adjective. Past participle as adjective. Adjective construction using verbal noun. It's an adjective, and as other posters have already said, "well" as an adjective means "not ill". No-one says "I'm well", and I've lost count of the number of students I've had to correct on this. The neutral response is "I'm fine" and I'd recommend using this here. One other thing:
I'd caution against using this dialogue. The word "she" hear is being used non-grammatically. While this is fine (meaning "why did you say 'she'") but to the student it will look like a demonstrative, particularly in languages which use the nominative for the non-clausal demonstrative. You could drop it and make the line simply "Alex is a woman?" Edited by Cainntear on 08 November 2008 at 2:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| farrioth Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5877 days ago 171 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Esperanto, Sanskrit, Japanese | Message 45 of 162 08 November 2008 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'd go for natural translations.
Both literal English for the target language and vice versa would be helpful, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary.
I'd say that we ideally want a standard romanisation for languages that have them (Eg. Pinyin for Mandarin), as well as either an explanation of the romanisation in IPA (where this is easy), or IPA given for each new word (a word list would be more concise that transcribing the entire dialogues) where necessary. Of course, I'd agree that it is still secondary to the translations themselves. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| josht Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6233 days ago 635 posts - 857 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch | Message 46 of 162 08 November 2008 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'd also go with "I'm fine" as the first response to "How are you?" It's what I hear most often, I'd say, with "I'm good" coming in at a close second. I very rarely hear "I'm well."
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5798 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 47 of 162 08 November 2008 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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One more observation on the dialogues:
Surely it's better to use native names? But if we do, the "Alex" thing won't translate (unless Alex is a foreign tourist)... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| peppelanguage Triglot Groupie ItalyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5651 days ago 90 posts - 94 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, English Studies: French, Swedish | Message 48 of 162 08 November 2008 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sorry for answering late....had problems... :)
Answering to the notes.... 1)I prefer "Come va?" too...but I tried to stick more to the original version, maybe we could put a note to explain it..but I think this is a problem in all the versions...any language has more than 2 or 3 ways (AT LEAST) to say "How are you?"...the same English...has "How are you?", "How's it going?", "How do you do?" and probably more...I can't remember more at the moment :) 2) Buongiorno is used from the wake up till 12/1pm/2pm/3pm/4pm....depending on the zones...Buona sera usually from 6pm going on...and Buona notte going back home, used as the last greeting...like the English "good night".... They're usually explained together in the grammar books... :) 3)I put "Scusa, sei tu Alex?" because they already know each other...and he thinks that one is Alex...when he understands he is not Alex passes to "Scusi..."using the lei 1 person has voted this message useful |
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