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Dutch profile | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Collaborative writing | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| orion Senior Member United States Joined 6808 days ago 622 posts - 678 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 17 of 40 24 November 2005 at 1:42am | IP Logged | |||||
This is what I had assumed. I do appreciate the straightforward way of speaking that most Dutch people have. They won't hesitate to tell someone if they are too fat, skinny etc! This is sometimes perceived as being rude by some Americans. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Steve Diglot Groupie South Africa Joined 6681 days ago 56 posts - 58 votes Speaks: English*, Afrikaans Studies: Norwegian | Message 18 of 40 14 January 2006 at 8:47am | IP Logged | |||||
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On the subject of the similarities between Afrikaans and Dutch, I believe that speakers of both can read the others' written language with only a little readjustment. My experience is that Afrikaans speakers can adapt to spoken Dutch in a very short space of time, although I don't know how it works the other way round...
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| M-Squared Senior Member United States Joined 6926 days ago 117 posts - 118 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 19 of 40 04 February 2006 at 8:51am | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't speak Dutch, but I'm interested, and would like to see the profile
up. So, I've tried to synthesize what has been posted here. How close is this to something to post? Any comments? Popularity: Somewhere between English and German, Dutch might not be the most beautiful language, but it is the national language of two very dynamic and friendly countries: Belgium and the Netherlands. It is also spoken in pockets around the world, and a close relative (Afrikaans) is a language of South Africa. Introduction Usefulness: Although The Netherlands once commanded a mighty empire, Dutch is not a major world language. Even within The Netherlands speaking Dutch is not as useful as one might think, as the Dutch are well known for learning languages and the younger generation mostly speaks English quite well. Chic Factor: Dutch is not a major language of the European Union, and very few people outside of the Netherlands and Belgium can speak it. People will gawk as you gag speaking Dutch. The variety of hard guttural sounds mixed with a very soft accent can cause you to sound very exotic! If speaking an unusual language makes you feel chic, Dutch is relatively easy for native English speakers. Countries: The Netherlands, about half of Belgium, Suriname, and small communities in the Carribean, Germany, France, and Indonesia. Afrikaans, a closely related language, is spoken in South Africa and Namibia. Regional Variations: Dutch speakers are concentrated in one part of Europe, so regional variation is limited. There are some regional dialects in The Netherlands, but everybody learns standard Dutch. Flemish speakers (Dutch speakers in Belgium) have a less guttural accent and use more French loanwords than their cousins in the Netherlands. Afrikaans is a language that evolved directly from Dutch. It is a different language, but Afrikaans and Dutch speakers can often mostly communicate, and the written forms are even more similar. Speakers: 17 million claim it to be their mother tongue and another 4 million claim to use it as their second language. Economic Importance: The Netherlands and Belgium are both wealthy countries well known as trading nations. On a list of GDP by language Dutch comes in at number eight. However, business people in both countries typically speak another language well, and often several. Beauty: Few people, even Dutch, regard it as a beautiful language. It is very gutteral with an overdose of silent vowels. Travel: Dutch will help you if you travel to The Netherlands or parts of Belgium, although most people (especially the younger generation) can speak good English. You will occasionally find a Dutch speaker in a corner of former Dutch empire. Culture: Everyone knows about Dutch cuture with it's Old Master paintings, great feats of civil engineering (dikes and canals), and love of flowers. Generations of tourists have also been fascinated by it's liberal (the Dutch might say sensible and matter-of-fact) attitude to what are vices almot everywhere else! But, most of these can be enjoyed without speaking Dutch. Dutch books, newspapers, TV, and movies are mostly of local interest. Difficulties Difficulty: Not very hard for a native English speaker. About as difficult as Spanish, except that learning materials and people to practice are much harder to come by, unless you live in a Dutch speaking area. Pronounciation: Except for the many guttural sounds, pronounciation is similar to English. The major difference is the profusion of guttural sounds in the Netherlands dialect of Dutch (the one most often taught). The "g" is rolled in the throat so it sounds like you're trying to cough up phlegm. The "r" is also rolled by the tongue and "ch" is pronounced like "loCH" (in scottish accent). Grammar: The grammar of Dutch is somewhere between English and modern standard German, as it comes, like English, from old low German forms. The SVO pattern is the norm, but other patterns as in German are also used. There are many seperable verbs, as in German. However, conjugation is easy as there is little variation and the verb tenses are simple. Vocabulary: Speaking another Germanic language helps greatly. Dutch has a system to two genders for nouns, and must be memorized as in other languges with a gender system. Dutch shares many cognates with English and/or German. Some are easy, some are obvious when spoken but hard to see on paper, others are easy to see when written but hard to catch when spoken. Most become fairly clear after learning some systematic sound and spelling shifts. Those who speak both English and German will know most Dutch (at least on paper). Transparency: Somewhere between German and English, and so with substantial similarity to both. Spelling: Fairly regular and phonetic, but some common letters are pronounced quite differently than in English. Time Needed: Relatively easy, a few hundred hours to a very usable level of fluency. Definitely easier for those who know German and English first. Resources: As relatively few people are interested in learning Dutch, and most Dutch people already speaking and/or are learning other languages, materials and assistance are not easy to find. Books: There is a 10 lesson Pimsleur Dutch course. Assimil has Dutch available with an English, German, or French base. There does not appear to be an FSI Dutch course generally available. Schools: There are various schools teaching Dutch to expatriates in the Netherlands. There is a series of Dutch proficiency examinations following the European Union language standards. Links 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6652 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 20 of 40 07 February 2006 at 10:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'd also like to recommend "Teach Yourself Dutch" as a learning resource. Its a little basic, but will give you a good introduction to Dutch. The only problem is the speakers don't seem to pronounce words that end in the letter 'n'. For example, on the tape whenever a word ends in 'n', they dont pronounce it e.g. "binne(n)". Is this due to a regional difference?
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| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6821 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 21 of 40 06 March 2006 at 7:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've already placed this link twice in a post somewhere on the forum. But maybe this is something you can use in the profile.
http://portal.omroep.nl/uitzendinggemist On this webpage you can see and listen to many video and audio streams! They're for people who missed a broadcast on one of the Dutch public channels. You can also watch the news and listen to radio stations. If you learn a language, material like this comes in very handy (I like the Spanish broadcasts I can find). Do make a note that one has to change the settings to broadband because by default they play in low (bad!) quality. Setting it once to high/broadband is enough, the settings are stored in a cookie I gues. To change the settings: go to "instellingen" (in the player, in the right top) and choose for "Snel internet (breedband)" and click on "opslaan". Also, I just had to reload the player frame once because the first time it stayed blank. Now it works ok, just in case it might happen to you so you know what to do :) Anyway, I like this site a lot, best streaming site I've seen thus far, a lot to choose from and good quality! (I wish I could find such an extensive Spanish site like that.) Edited by tuffy on 06 March 2006 at 7:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spiff Pentaglot Newbie Belgium Joined 6635 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: Dutch*, French, English, German, Russian | Message 22 of 40 08 March 2006 at 9:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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I still have a few problems with this profile.
First of all, whether Dutch is beautiful or not is a completely personal point of view. I see no point in adding a line like "Dutch might not be the most beautiful language". You could say the same or the opposite about any language. Also, I don't entirely agree with the remarks on regional variations. If you learn standard Dutch pronunciation from a tape, you might be up for some surprises when you hear actual people talk. As far as the discussion on Afrikaans is concerned, you can safely say that they are mutually intelligible, notwithstanding the occasional "faux amis". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spiff Pentaglot Newbie Belgium Joined 6635 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: Dutch*, French, English, German, Russian | Message 23 of 40 08 March 2006 at 9:08am | IP Logged | |||||
No, that's pretty standard. Only when people appear on, say, television and want to make a good impression, they sometimes pronounce the n's, because they mistakenly believe that's the standard pronunciation. It sounds ugly. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lugubert Heptaglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6654 days ago 186 posts - 235 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Danish, Norwegian, EnglishC2, German, Dutch, French Studies: Mandarin, Hindi | Message 24 of 40 08 March 2006 at 11:32am | IP Logged | |||||
My impression from having lived in the Low Countries for some extended periods, is that the pronunciation of the 'n' is limited to some rather peripheral areas, like Groningen. For the beauty of it all, that question to me brings up so many fond memories of many a kind that I just love Dutch. If you find the Northern Dutch "g"s too harsh, go for the Southern, but still by definition perfectly Dutch, "soft g's" (zachte g's) varieties of Belgium. They can be soooo sensual. I haven't yet had to address Afrikaans professionally, but I don't doubt that I would be able to translate from it and/or make myself understood and understand the language, after spending not too many hours on its grammar. Edited by Lugubert on 08 March 2006 at 11:33am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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