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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1425 of 3959
20 October 2009 at 4:09am | IP Logged 
POR: Como tenho escrevido acima, eu nunca tenho visitado as Ilhas Canárias. Tenho no entanto visitado Cabo Verde, e foi realmente o primeiro lugar que visitei onde podia falar um pouco Português - depois de sômente um mes de estudios intensivos da lingua Portuguesa. Como turista se desembarca numa ilha de sol chamuscado chamado Sal. O meu hotel era excelente, e a cidade não era ruim, mas o resto da ilha não era atraente (no fato eu a descrevi no meu relatório de viagem como uma merda de cão num tapete azul). Mas eu tinha previsto isso e já organizou visitas para ainda duas ilhas, São Vicente (som a cidade de Mindelo) e São Antão, que tem uma extraordinária beleza natural e boas trilhas para caminar. Os nativos têm a sua própria variante crioula do Português, e eu não podia entendê-la - não mesmo quando eu a vi num texto imprimido. Pero podia já falar bastante bem o Português para comprar coisas e conversar um pouco. Isto foi já no ano 2006.
     
Em 2008, visitei um dos Açores (São Miguel) com a minha mãe, que tem 82 anos de idade. Ela era muito contente com as suas visitas precedentes a Gran Canaria, Tenerife e Madeira, e agora ela também gostaria de visitar os Açores. Mas simplesmente não conseguia puxar-se a comprar a viagem. Então eu fiz isso - um viagem com dois quartos únicos num hotel 5 estrelas na cidade de Punta Delgada. Quando chegamos lá, a guía diu que durante a nossa estadia foi um festival religioso, onde os moradores pretendiam atrelarem uma figura de Jesus pelas ruas da cidade acima dum tapete de 'flores' (feito de serragem colorida). Era muito interesante, e afortunadamente não cantavam hinos (não me gostam os hinos) - no fato foi uma processão muito silencioso, fora de umas bandas que jogavam musica lente y triste. No porto havia um imenso navio de cruzeiro, e enquanto o tapete de flores foi construída os turistas deste navio caminhavam nas ruas da cidade - mas não podiam ver a procissão porque o navio zarpou no mesmo momento que a procissão se colocou lentemente em movimento. Este foi um exemplo de planejamento extraordinariamente ruim.

Nesta viagem, eu falava pouco Português, já que eu andei com a minha mãe (e que partecipámos em 3 excursões com uma guía que falava dinamarquês o sueco). Pero além disso tenho no ano 2007 visitado Moçambique e o Portugal sem falar outras lenguas do que o português.

---------

As I have mentioned above I have never visited The Canary Islands. But I went to Cape Verde in 2006 after just one month where I had workded hard to learn Portuguese, and because I already knew some Spanish I could speak with the Capeverdeans when I arrived - but not well enough to avoid other languages (I spoke German to the man who had arranged my trip to São Vicente and Sõ Antão, I spoke Dnaish to the guides from the comparny that brought me down there, I spoke French to my landlord at São Antão and Italian to some Italian tourists I met on one of the trails on that island). Since then I have visited the Azores, - or at least one of the islands in this group. For some reason my mother - who had earlier visited two Canaries and Madeira (and been very satisfied with these travels) - couldn't make up her mind to buy the trip to the Azores, but just went around speaking of her wish to go there. So I got tired of that and just bought a trip for two persons, with single rooms at a 5* hotel in Punta Delgada. When we arrived we were informed that the town would more or less come to a standstill for several days because of a religious festival, where the local people would carry a Christus figure through the streets which were decorated with pretty 'flowerbeds' (though these were in fact made of coloured sawdust). Luckily it was a very peaceful and sombre procession with no singing of hymns. In the harbour there was a big cruise ship, and the turists from that ship swarmed in the streets while the flower beds were constructed, - but the ship left just when the procession started. That can't be seen as anything a case of singularly bad planning!

During these two travels I spoke Portuguese some of the time, but at Cape Verde my Portuguese was still somewhat fragmentary, and at the Azores I went around with my mother most of the time, and we also participated in several excursions with Danish or Swedish guide. However in between I made one travel to Moçambique and one to mainland Portugal, and during these travels I didn't speak anything but Portuguese - except in one case: the hotel in Maputo called me after two days and asked when I had planned to leave. Apparently there had been some misunderstanding between the hotel and my travel agency so the hotel at only counted on having me around for two nights, but I had paid for four nights and could prove it. Until this situation had been cleared I spoke English, but went back to Portuguese as soon as I was sure that I could stay.

Edited by Iversen on 22 October 2009 at 12:32pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1426 of 3959
22 October 2009 at 12:41am | IP Logged 
GR: Έχω ακόμα την αρχαία-γαλλική σύνταξη του Foulet στην τσάντα μου, αλλά σήμερα έφερε εκτός από ένα ελληνικό οδηγό γλώσσα στην σύγχρονη γαλλική:Harrap's Parler le grec en voyage. Είναι ενδιαφέρο, διότι προβλέπεται επίσης μεταφράσεις κάποιών πολύ άτυπών εκφρáσεων της γαλλικής: "On a trouvé un petit hôtel très sympa" (βρήκαμε ένα πολύ συμπαθικó ξενοδοχείο), "J'ai appris quelques mots avec un bouquin" (έμαθα κáποιες λέξεις απó ένα βιβλíο).

Σ'ένα άλλο νήμα στον φóρουμ έχω γράψει ότι η ελληνική γλώσσα είναι σχετικά ανθεκτικά στην αγγλική επιρροή, αλλά στη συνέχεια διάβασα σε αυτό το μικρό βιβλίο αυτές τις καταδίκες: Υπάρχει Ίντερνετ καφέ δεώ πέρα; (y a-t-il un café internet ici?) Έξετε ενα διεύθυνσι μέιλ; (est-ce que vous avez une adresse e-mail?). Ξαφνιάσθηκε επίσης απó ορισμένες χρήσεις του 'και': "δεν μου αρέσει και τóσο.." (je n'aime pas becaucoup...). Ώστοσο το ακόλουθο παράδειγμα είναι σε Science Illustrated: "(...) ρίζες που έφταναν και τα 30 μέτρα".

LAT: In televisione emissionem vidi Geographicis Nationalis de originibus Terrae. Ut videtur infantiam vehementissimam habebat planeta nostra, - ex polvere formatus est et campum magneticum sibi creabit in tempore breve, et postea alter planeta magnitudinis Martis Lunam formans in Terram fragorem dedidi. Aqua cum meteorites venit et maria efficiuntur. Tunc vita orta est et nunc tempum 100.000.000 annuum stromatolitae oxygenium pareverunt quod cum ferrum in aqua se coniungens strata de rubigine ingentes formavit. Modo editum totum ferrum marium oxygenium librum oriri potebat, et vita multicellularis ortus est circa 1000.000.000 anniis ante tempus nostrum. De vitae edicariae jam multe hic loquatus est.


---------

I still have Foulet's Old French Syntax in my bag, but today I had also brought a small Greek language guide from Harrap's (i.e. in French, - I bought it in Strasbourg earlier this year). It has a good mix of registers, - including some very typical and common expressions that however clearly belong to Spoken French. I have recently written in another thread that Greek is surprisingly resistent to English contamination, but nevertheless the Greek use English words for internet café and mail (e-mail): Ίντερνετ καφέ / μέιλ. And finally I have found some idiomatic uses of "και" (the Greek word for "and").

Besides I have watched a program about the origin of the Earth. It apparently had a very violent childhood: within a few hundred million yars it arose from the dust surrounding the sun, but soon some other celestial body crashed into it, creating the Moon from the loose rubble. Then the Earth apparently received enough water from meteorites (and NOT from comets) to fill up the oceans, but it was green because of the iron content; it took one billion years for the new lifeforms (bacteria, most notably those collected in stromatolites) to produce the oxygen needed to convert the Iron into rust - leaving unimaginable amounts of red ferrous rocks. And after that it took two billion years more to go from one-celled organisms to the Edicarian lifeforms we discussed here a while ago. The oldest of these are around 850.000.000 years old, and since then life has taken over the Earth - leading up to the present situation where some murderous insane monkey* is doing his best to kick us back to the Prekambrian situation. Though let's be optimistic: with a little luck some hardy jellyfish, algae and cockroaches will survive the next twenty years or so.

* Homo sapiens

Edited by Iversen on 22 October 2009 at 5:19pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1427 of 3959
22 October 2009 at 8:29pm | IP Logged 
ESP: Hodiaux posttagmeze mi denove vizitis mian Esperanto-rondon en Düsseldorf. Dum du horoj ni konversaciis Esperante sur tute diversaj kaj interesaj temoj. Post la oficiala konversacio survoje al la trajnoj mi babilis kun la du Esperantistinoj, kiuj intencas iri kun mi al Kopenhago, pli private kaj mi rakontis al ili, ke mi ekkomencis lerni la danan lingvon kaj, ke mi nun alternante studas po unu lecionon de la turka, de la dana, de la turka, de la dana k.t.p. (= kaj tiel plu). Kaj tuj ili rimarkis: "Cxu vi ne konfuzas la danan kaj la turkan lingvojn?" "Kompreneble tute ne," mi respondis al ili. Mi gxenerale ne facile konfuzas lingvojn kaj, se ili estas tiom malsamaj, mi certe neniam konfuzos ilin!

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 22 October 2009 at 11:23pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1428 of 3959
23 October 2009 at 12:45am | IP Logged 
ESP: Kiel povas oni konfuzi la danan kaj la turkan lingvojn?? Sed ti povas ankaŭ alterni inter Dana kaj Turka lingvoj en Kopenhago - mi havas multajn Turkojn de 1., 2. kaj 3. generacio ci tie.

IC: Eg hef í dag lesið nokkrar greinar á íslensku fra internetinu. Ein grein var um "gamma ray bursts", á íslensku kallast "gammablossi" - og 'gamma' var enda lánaorðin, sem birtust í hínum texta. Önnur, sem var miklu lengur, stóð á heimasíðu www.stjornuskodun.is og talaði um "slæma stjörnufræði", þ.e. allt frá stjörnuspeki yfir heimsóknum geimvara að kornhringa. Her ér tilvitun úr þeirri grein: "Ef lögreglun á Íslandi stendur sig vel leysir hún kannski 94% morðmála sem koma upp, og í ljós kemur að morðinginn er mennsker i öllum tilfellum. En hvað um hin sex prósentin? Gætu morðingjarnir þár verið drauger, geimverur, alfar eðda huldufólk?" Það er auðvitað að ég er sammála: þótt þú getur ekki sýnt fram á að það var líf-eins og útskýringar um atvik, er það ekki að þýða að men skylda endilega að trúa tilgáta hins meist åndssvega tilgátan. En kannski þetta rök er ekki gott í íslensku, þar sem vissulega er enn fólk sem trúir á álfar og huldra..


Edited by Iversen on 23 October 2009 at 3:43pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1429 of 3959
23 October 2009 at 2:37pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
ESP: Kiel visit least 50s povas oni konfuzi la danan kaj la turkan lingvojn??


I don't understand "Kiel visit least 50s."

La dana kaj la turka estas tiom diversaj...

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 23 October 2009 at 4:09pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1430 of 3959
23 October 2009 at 3:49pm | IP Logged 
"visit least 50s" belongs to another context - I must have pressed CTR+V

Apart from that,
FR: J'ai fait un petit voyage en train, et ici j'ai encore une fois lu quelque chose sur l'évolution de la language française dans mon Foulet, - les sections sur le subjonction et sur la négation. On peut peut-être deviner que la réponse "non" était la forme 'forte' de "ne", mais guère que c'est à travers son emploi dans les phrases incomplètes qu'il est devenu mot de réponse. Il me fait aussi heureux de revoir de bons vieux mots commes "nenils", "mie" et d'autres, - plus "guère" dont je me sert toujours en 2009,ême dans la langue parlée.

Edited by Iversen on 25 October 2009 at 8:39pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 1431 of 3959
24 October 2009 at 9:57am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Og jeg er lidt stolt af, at jeg måske har været en lille smule medskyldig i det, fordi jeg skrev nogle ord-for-ord oversættelser, der viste hvor nemt det er at lære dansk, når man i forvejen kan tysk, nederlandsk og engelsk. Men jeg havde ikke regnet med, at du ligefrem ville begynde at lære det for alvor.


NL: Ik kan nog te weinig Deens, om op dit in het Deens zelf te reageren. Ik heb al in in 2003 de doelstelling gehad om Deens te leren. Toen ik daarmee moest stoppen, heb ik het plan nooit opgegeven. Voor mij was altijd duidelijk: Ik zal dat weer hervatten. Jouw Deense hyperliterals gaven natuurlijk nog extra inspiratie. Er spelen nu twee faktoren: De eerste is dat ik in 2011 de kans krijg voor een (korte) vakantie in Kopenhagen. De tweede is dat ik mijn studiegroep Turks heb opgegeven. Daardoor ben ik veel vrijer geworden in het samenstellen van mijn taalstudieprogramma. Als ik afwisselend een les Deens en dan weer een les Turks leer, bij zelfstudie maakt dat niets uit. Met de Turkse studiegroep zou ik dat niet gedaan hebben, want mijn studiepartner had met het Deens niets te maken. Mijn doelstelling om werkelijk serieus Deens te leren, die was er altijd, in ieder geval sindsdien ik toen in Kopenhagen met vakantie was.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 24 October 2009 at 10:01am

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Iversen
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 Message 1432 of 3959
25 October 2009 at 8:32pm | IP Logged 
DU: Voor mij is het vandaag vooral de taalgroepen die bepalen wat ik zou willen leren. Ik leerde sommige Germaanse en Romaanse talen in mijn school- en studiejaren, en daarom is het natuurlijk voor mij te willen alle talen van deze groepen leren - maar om praktische redenen werd ik er enige talen missen (Fries, Faeröers, Sardinië en anderen, - ik verwacht ook niet Oudfrans morgen te leren spreken). Reisen kan het best worden gebruikt in het leren van talen, als je al bijna een taal spreekt - anders kunt je geen verbinding kunt maken met de lokale bevolking. Hoe beter je kunt de taal spreken, hoe beter je kunt kansen vinden en benutten om war iets meer te leren. Maar met de achtergrond van Fasulye in het Duits, Nederlands en Engels werd Deens zeker geen groot probleem, vooral met bijna twee jaar naar het bezoek in Kopenhagen in 2011.

ROM: I-am vizitat pe familia mea în Sudul Iutlandiei în acest weekend, şi deoarece învăţarea limbii mea a fost oarecum limitată. Aici astăzi, cu toate acestea, am vizitat site-ul web http://Stiinta.ro, şi aici am găsit un podcast la 27 de minut. Tema era schimbările climatice şi ce putem face în legătură cu acestea, şi este, evident, un subiect important (iar ce am început să fie un pic obosit de audiere peste tot despre dezastrul iminent). Conferinţiarul a sugerit de a folosi produse chimice pentru a absorbi excesul de dioxid de carbon, care nu este un leac miracol prea frecvent la discuţiile. De asemenea a menţionat posibilitatea de a acoperi arii mari de pânză de culoare albă, astfel ca este reflectat energiea solare. Cu toate acestea, e foarte bun să aud o cuvintare spus în limba română, - în general eu nu poate auzi destul de românesc, şi 27 de minute unde un singur om spune despre un subiect interesantă, aceea este extrem de util pentru mîine.

-------

I am totally confinced that Fasulye - with her solid background in German, Dutch and English - will become fluent in Danish long before 2011 where she'll visit Copenhagen. And this is good, because beginners don't profit as much from a holiday abroad as people who are at least close to being able to speak the local language.

I have spent the weekend with my family in Southern Jutland so I haven't spent much time to learn languages. However after my return I have listened TWICE to a podcast at stiintazi.ro (Science today) where Cristian Român has spoken almost 27 minutes in Romanian about ways to save this planet from a climate catastrophe. And even though I am getting slightly fed up with hearing about this theme all the time and everywhere, this was 26 minutes in Romanian spoken by a single person and I need to hear some more Romanian. Besides the proposals went beyond the normal range of saving and taxing things out of existence: he discussed chemical substances that could absorb CO2, and also the idea about covering larges areas with white cloth in order to reflect some of the sun light back into space. Maybe it works, maybe not, but certainly worth a consideration.



Edited by Iversen on 26 October 2009 at 2:34am



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