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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 1945 of 3959
09 July 2010 at 8:20am | IP Logged 
RU: Вчера вечером я читал летописю, которую является основой для упоминания падения Рязани в мое учебнике по истории - очевидно, в модернизированной русском языке. Это называется "Повесть о разорении рязани Батыем". Летописец гораздо подчеркивает это, что Бату безбожный и русские князья - благочестивые православных христиане, и он также тщательно описывает, что произошло с отдельными членами королевской семьи. Учебник, к счастью, сделал больше из бедствий, которое превзошло обычные люди в Рязани (и все другие места, где опустошили монголы).

Last evening I read the original chronicle about the fall of Rjazan - the "Tale of the destruction of Ryazan by Batu", but of course in modernized Russian. The writer shows his age by specifying again and again that Batu was godless and the Russian princes without exception devout ortodox christians - but actually one of the extremely few redeeming features of the Mongol khans was that once they had conquered a population they let the survivors keep their individual religions. The chronicler also describes in detail what happens to each member of the princely house - whereas the fate of the common people apparently isn't quite as important. At least my history book has focused somewhat more on this aspect. I don't have the numbers for the Ryazans as a whole, but zero percent survivors in the capital is not untypical. The mongols systematically killed everybody who in any way resisted them. The estimate for the Volga-Bulgarians is (according to Wikipedia) that 80% of the population was exterminated, and most of the survivors fled.

Speak about hard times...

Edited by Iversen on 09 July 2010 at 8:31am

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Iversen
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 Message 1946 of 3959
13 July 2010 at 4:14am | IP Logged 
BA: Ada saya sekarang di Bandara Changi di Singapura, siap untuk pergi ke Brunei Darussalam.

hehe, Bahasa is not too difficult. I'm flying from Singapore to Brunei today, and Changi airport has free internet connection - though only for up to 15 minutes, so I have to be brief. I have been very busy here, - 3 museums and a long walk Sunday, an aquarium and 3 zoos yesterday, so I haven't had much time for studies, except Monday evening where I did manage to squeeze in a wee wordlist in Bahasa with around 200 words. One good thing about Singapore is that many messages are at least bilingual, some are quadrilingual or more, and I have also stocked up on double versions of museum folders in English (or in one case French) and Bahasa. I have brought Kauderwelsch' Irish and a micro Russian dictionary, but so far I haven't had time to use them.

Edited by Iversen on 13 July 2010 at 4:15am

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newyorkeric
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 Message 1947 of 3959
13 July 2010 at 5:54am | IP Logged 
I hope you enjoyed your time here! Was your long walk along the canopy walk?
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Iversen
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 Message 1948 of 3959
14 July 2010 at 8:42am | IP Logged 
Sorry, no. My long walk was from Peninsula through Chinatown and Neil Road around Mount
Faber to Harbourfront, where I consumed 2 liters of Cocoa milk within 20 minutes. It's
hard to be a tourist.

BA: Sekarang saya di Brunei, di mana saya telah menemukan sebuah warnet (wide
area network?). Saya telah melihat muzium dengan berbagai hadiah untuk Sultan, dan
besok adalah hari ulang tahunnya, dan kemudian dia akan mendapatkan lebih banyak
hadiah. Saya juga membeli kamus Bahasa Malaysia <-> Bahasa Inggris. Aku punya kamus di
rumah, tapi itu adalah untuk Bahasa Indonesia. DDan sekarang saya lapar - saya telah
mengunjungi tiga museum hari ini, dan aku telah melakukan banyak berjalan. Aku belajar
bahasa panduan Lonely Planet saya sepanjang malam kemarin. Aku mempelajari buku panduan
Bahasa saya melalui malam kemarin.

... and let me add that I also spent a lot of time writing the skeleton for the phrases
above, and I have added the words I was missing yesterday from my new dictionary. AND I
stuffed the whole thing into Google translate to check it. One problem of Bahasa is
that his and hers are the same (-nya), so according to the translation the Sultan will
be celebrating 'her' birthday tomorrow. I am fairly sure that it isn't me who have made
an error here, but if so then I offer my most sincere apologies to him.

By the way I also visited the Technology Museum today and had a talk with an custodian
there (in Bahasa Inggris, of course).It is a nice museum with lots of bilingual texts,
and I showed him how to use them for language learning.
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Hobbema
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 Message 1949 of 3959
17 July 2010 at 6:10am | IP Logged 
This is an interesting vacation you are taking, and thank you for taking the time to update your log when you are halfway across the world from home.

Good luck with your work on the "Bahasa Inggris" dialect, I'm glad you were able to find it useful! :)
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Iversen
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 Message 1950 of 3959
17 July 2010 at 9:41am | IP Logged 
Actually I have just discovered that the Malayian version of it seems to be "Bahasa Inggeris", - at least my new (Malaysian Oxford) bilingual dictionary spells it that way on the cover. I don't have it with me right now so I won't write in neither Malaysian nor Indonesian Bahasa today, but just mention that I continue my daily rutine with 100-200 words on wordlists plus studies of uni/bilingual texts. I give it at least 3-4 hours every day at my room, plus the time I walk atound in the streets or visit sights - that should definitely lead to something tangible within a relatively short time. I have also managed to read a bit of Russian yesterday for diversion, but apart from that I concentrate on this latest acquaintance of mine.

Besides I visited a bookstore yesterday in order to try to find some easy non-fiction books in Malaysian, but it turned out to be more difficult than expected. Apparently the Malaysians themselves prefer reading about their own history and nature in Inggeris rather than Malaysian, so there is not much incentive to publish such books in Malaysian. I got however some small books about local tribes plus a book about cooking, so that will keep me occupied for some time.

Besides I had a funny experience today when I searched for this forum. I use Google to find it when I'm away from my own computers, and today I noticed a link to something about the "Iverson method". Of course I wanted to see what it was, and it turned out to be a forum for people who study Japanese: http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=3891.

I quote one interesting message from that forum:

"Oh, I thought Iversen was someone famous who had written a book or something, I had no idea it was some guy on a forum. I've never really looked around the forum, has he actually proved that he can actively speak and use those languages? I realize it's just European languages, but it still sounds quite amazing, especially since his techniques SHOULDN'T really work according to most theories."

I'm somewhat puzzled by this last statement, but if some theory predicts that my methods don't work I won't be too depressed. For some users they won't (and I have said so quite clearly), but for me they do, and I have no qualms about just being some guy on a forum who hasn't written a book or something.

And by the way, right now I'm trying to learn some Malaysian/Indonesian, and those are not Indoeuropean... the quirk is that this fact will give me the last points I lacked for becoming a super-geek in the big being-a-language-geek test. Hurray.


Edited by Iversen on 17 July 2010 at 9:57am

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patuco
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 Message 1951 of 3959
18 July 2010 at 1:36am | IP Logged 
Perhaps you could title your book "Just Some Musings from a Guy on a Forum".

I'll be looking forward to its release :)
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Iversen
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 Message 1952 of 3959
19 July 2010 at 6:35am | IP Logged 
patuco wrote:
Perhaps you could title your book "Just Some Musings from a Guy on a forum".


Or rather "Just musings from some guy on a forum who hadn't even written a book (yet) - so he felt compelled to do it in order to appease some guy on a forum for learners of Japanese", But to be honest, I don't feel like battling it out with editors and proofreaders and the tax vultures, and anyway it would just be a bloated version of my 'Guide to Learning languages' on this forum.


BA: OK, hari ini saya punya kamus di sini dan ingin menulis sesuatu perbahasa Malaysia/Indonesia. Kemarin dulu pergi ke Semenggoh, di mana berlaku membekalkan orang utan. Tidak lihat binatang lain. Di taman lain banyak binatang, termasuk delfin dan monyet probosis - tidak punya buku, sudaya tidak tahu nama benar. "Lonely Planet" beritahu nama monyet probosis - tidak rasmi - adalah "orang belana" (Dutchman!), Kemarin pergi ke ke Cultural Village (Desa Budaya) meskipun hujan (hujan berhenti di 12 jam).

Bahasa M+I gampang, dan lain adalah susah. Ada banyak prefiks, dan kamus saya dan panduan bahasa saya tidak setuju pada cara menggunakannya. Misalnya, saya ingin menterjehmahkan kata bahasa Ingg(e)ris "their". LP mengkata "mereka", tetapi mentejehmahkan "mereka" dengan "their . they" (dua kemungkinan). Kamus Oxford menterjehmahkan "their, theirs" dengan "kepinyaan mereka". Hm, terlalu panjang, saya syak. Saya mencari "mereka": "k.n. they; people mentioned or unspecified; them; objective case of they". Hm, na lho. Mencari "kapunyaan" tetapi - tidak terjumpa. Mencari "punya(an)", berjumpa kata dasar "punya, mempunya k.k., see milik". Mencari "milik", berjumpa "milik, memiliki k.k. own ; have as one's property, acknowledge ownership of". Tolong, saya mau dengan mudah penterjemahkan "their" -bahwa penjelasan panjang tidak membantu saya!

OK, I have brought my LP language and my Oxford dictionary to a cybercafe (a "warnet" - wide area network), so I'll try some more bad Bahasa M + I (so far I don't separate the two). One slight problem is that they don't always agree, and I suspect it isn't primarily a language/dialect problem. The point is that Bahasa 'over-here' has a system with prefixes that change the role in the sentence of simple roots. And my dictionary is somewhat more fussy about those than the language guide. For instance LP gives 'beli' as the translation of 'to buy' (in the present form in an ewxample), whereas the dictionary seems to prefer "membeli" - "mem-" often denotes activities. Often such prefixes hide a central nucleus: "perbelanjaan" means 'shopping', and somewhere in the middle you find '-bel-'. My guess is that one of the things that separates Tarzan Bahasa from the real McCoy is whether you can use the proper affixes.

I quote an example from my Oxford dictionary, where I search something as simple as the translation of 'their'. However it seems that the Malaysians don't separate the words for 'they', 'them' and 'their'. However instead of just telling me in one word to do my dictionary sends me on a long journey through word combinations and explanations in Ingeeris that lead me to a word for "have as one's property, acknowledge ownership of" - which isn't quite what I wanted. There is a wealth of information in that dictionary, but you sure have to learn how to deal with it. At home I have another dictionary which seemed more straightforward - I'm eager to see whether it will give me a single word translation of "their".

Yesterday I visited the Cultural Village even though it rained until Midday. The day before that I visited the Semenggoh Orang Utan feeding place, but didn't see any other animals. However in other national parks here they have for instance river dolphins and proboscis monkeys - unfortunately I haven't found an animal or bird guide in Bahasa yet, so I don't know nearly enough local animal/bird names. My LP tells me that the proboscis monkeys (which I haven't seen yet) are called "orang belanda", ie.e. "man from the Netherlands". Local humour, I suppose ...     

Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 1:47am



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