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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 3593 of 3959
01 May 2014 at 12:26pm | IP Logged 
SE: Ја сам слушао различите серије видео снимке на Youtube за људе који желе научити српски језик. Learnserbianquickly има низ где само приказује српску фразу са енглеским преводом на црном екрану, а он га чита. Једноставно и довољно, али веома досадано. Mylatemanager говори енглески највећи део времена. Зашто кажемо: "Let's start" на енглеском? Говорни енглески је отров који уништава курсеве језика. Mожда писани преводи могу бити потребни, и писани енглески је мање штетна од говорног енглеског. Learnserbian Она има најбоље подешавање, јер је слог прочитао на екрану. Постоје Латински алфабет за почетнике и за напредне студенте ћирилицом, па сам користити видео за напредне студенте - али да било ствар добар би имамо превод. Подела се може видети на њиховом сајту.

I have had a Croatian TV channel for a month now, and it has many programs with clear speech without background music and other disturbances - just what I need. I have also had a Polish channel, and sometimes there are similar programs (sometimes as part of "pogoda" - which should mean weather report, but they speak about almost every other subject than the ewather), but it is not quite as 'clean' as the Croatian one. And from today I also have a Serbian channel, which I have hesitated to choose because its description on the site of my cable provider indicates something more mainstream and family oriented and entertaining - and when I hear things like that I translate them into "worthless rubbish for children and/or coach potatoes". OK, now I've chosen it and then time will tell whether it bears watching. Maybe it has better programs outside prime time - like Raiuno which simply can't be the best program available in Italian, but when it shows sometime decent it always happens late in the evening or in the middle of the day.

I have also searched for Youtube 'courses' in Serbian on Youtube, and actually there are several series to choose from. The thing I need most is to listen to a levelheaded and non-histrionic voice that reads things as they are written on the screen, and I have found a series by 'learnserbian' which however also can be seen in a more orderly fashion at the homepage www.serbianlesson.com. There is a series for beginners, but it uses Latin letters, and a series for intermediate learners with Cyrillic letters, but without translation - which is OK because I primarily want to listen to the pronunciation). And then there are lessons for advanced learners, but the only one I have tried out at that level started out speaking English. And that's one thing I don't like in a language course. English speech is an insidious poison that seeps directly from your ears into your brain and paralyzes it so that you can't think in the target language. English writing is far less dangerous because our brains aren't hardwired to suck up writing as readily as they suck up speech. And no, this is not a diatribe against the English language - in my case Danish would be even more pernicious than English, but luckily there aren't many Serbian courses on the internet that have Danish as their base language.

Edited by Iversen on 02 May 2014 at 12:52pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3594 of 3959
02 May 2014 at 12:33pm | IP Logged 
I had expected my new Serbian TV channel to be ready when I got home yesterday, but no - I still had BBC World (I got rid of CNN in March, and BBC W only survived because I still wasn't sure about the Serbian thing). And that's not all: when I accessed the homepage to make the changes a few days ago ALL my chosen channels had been marked for closure. Then I called the hotline, but the third person I spoke to pushed a button somewhere and put things in order. However I'm not satisfied before my latest changes actually are carried out. Which is strange - I made lots of changes in March, and the result was visible almost immediately.

SE: Гледао сам телевизор јуче: informativni програм зове нешто попут 'Лавиринт' (док су почели да причају о спорту). И касније сам гледао трећи део серије хрватских краљева y 'History Channel' - секција је углавном о 'дук' Бранимир.

GER: Ich habe darüber hinaus ausnahmsweise RTL geschaut, wo die Leute die 100 angeblich 'schlimmsten' Pannen auf TV zeigten – aber es gab nichts wirklich schlimmes derunter, nur zum Beispiel Reporter die sich fast zur Tode gelacht haben, Reporter die glaubten daβ sie keine Verbindung zum Studio hatten "und die QUEEEEEEN war auf die Treppen" (die QUEEEN kam aber erst später so keine Kuh auf der Eis, als wir auf Dänisch sagen) usw.

SW: På svensk TV såg jag ett av de utmärkte svenska naturprogram utan musik. Denne här gången handlade det mest om tittarnas bilder ock en tävling om det bästa af dessa, men vi besökte också Örby Kulla, där det kryllade av ormar som just hade avslutat sin vinterdvala.

GR: Πέρασα αρκετό καιρό στην γραπτή ελληνική χθες. Στο λεωφορείο από τη δουλειά μου διάβασα ενα άρθρο για τη μείωση του αριθμού των τίγρεις της Σουμάτρας, και στην πολυθρόνα στο σπίτι έχω σπουδάσει αρκετές σελίδες του 'Αστερίξ και η διχόνοια'.


Edited by Iversen on 02 May 2014 at 6:55pm

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Iversen
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Denmark
berejst.dk
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 Message 3595 of 3959
03 May 2014 at 4:44pm | IP Logged 
Yesterday evening I spent most of my time on upgrading the photos of my paintingsm but found time to do some Polish wordlists too. Today I have just returned from a visit to a neighbouring town (Skanderborg), where I learnt a bit of Danish at the local museum. Here in Denmark we tend to sleep under duvets rather than blankets, and this has been the case since the 1800s. Most of the early duvets had a striped cover, and today I learned that these are called "olmerdug" if they are striped from side to side, but "bolster" if the stripes go from one end to the other. I have seen those words in literature from the 19. century, but I didn't have an inkling of an idea about their real meaning. And now it's almost too late - most modern duvet covers have one single color or they are decorated with flowers or abstract patterns ... stripes are outdated.

Just for fun: this is the original spelling of the passage about the bed in "The Princess on the Pea" by Hans Christian Andersen, or "Prinsessen på ærten" by H.C. Andersen as we call him here in Denmark - only foreigners quote both his Christian names:

"En Aften blev det da et frygteligt Veir; det lynede og tordnede, Regnen skyllede ned, det var ganske forskrækkeligt! Saa bankede det paa Byens Port, og den gamle Konge gik hen at lukke op.
   Det var en Prindsesse, som stod udenfor. Men Gud hvor hun saae ud af Regnen og det onde Veir! Vandet løb ned af hendes Haar og hendes Klæder, og det løb ind af Næsen paa Skoen og ud af Hælen, og saa sagde hun, at hun var en virkelig Prindsesse.
   "Ja, det skal vi nok faae at vide!" tænkte den gamle Dronning, men hun sagde ikke noget, gik ind i Sovekammeret, tog alle Sengklæderne af og lagde en Ært paa Bunden af Sengen, derpaa tog hun tyve Matrasser, lagde dem ovenpaa Ærten, og saa endnu tyve Ædderduuns-Dyner oven paa Matrasserne. "

Nowadays we write "edderdunsdyner", and you can still get them - but they are ridiculously expensive. The feathers come from the common eider (Somateria mollissima) - and the species name of this species points to the softness of its down.

And speaking about names from the 19. century: some initials have become misleading. For instance we have a Danish composer called I.P.E. Hartmann - but what does the "i" stand for? Well, actually it stands for "Jens" - his full name is now written "Jens Peter Emilius Hartmann". But in his own time it was spelled "Iens", and this is mostly retained when we write his name with the initial letters (98.000 Google hits against 58.100 with "J").

Edited by Iversen on 04 May 2014 at 4:41pm

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Iversen
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 Message 3596 of 3959
05 May 2014 at 12:33am | IP Logged 
I have worked with wordlists today - mostly, but not only Russian ones. The direct reason for this is that I have studied a brochure in Russian from the aquarium "Aquaria" in Stockholm, Sweden, and when I was through with this, I at long last got around to do something about my growing heap of the new words from recent text copies etc. in Russian,. I have also worked with Serbian wordlists, and it was here I noticed something funny near the end of 'a': the Serbian words were much closer to those used in Danish than to the Italian translations in the dictionary I used (Avaliardi's Dizionario Plus, bought in Milan several years ago): алкоxол (it alcol, da alkohol), аматер (it dilettante, da amatør), анегдота (it aneddota, da anekdote), анкета (ir inchiesta/indagine, da (fr) enquête/spørgeundersøgelse), артичока (it carciofo, da artiskok) etc.

Edited by Iversen on 05 May 2014 at 12:34am

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Iversen
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 Message 3597 of 3959
08 May 2014 at 3:50pm | IP Logged 
I have spent some time the last couple of days on a non-linguistic project: providing new photos of my old paintings - I've made slightly more than 200, and I have photographed those in the possession of me and my mother with my new camera, which is much better than the old one to to indoors photos just with the daylight from the windows. The old photographs were taken with a lot of artificial light, and therefore they had a reddish tinge. Besides many of the old photos were blurred because to old camera was a manual one with film and I couldn't see the result immediately. I have shown a few paintings from my 'language serie' in some rarely accessed parts of this thread (from July 9 2009 and up) and also made a couple of multilingual videos about them which hardly anybody deigned to watch, so the current project is clearly not relevant for others than myself. But the same applies to my language learning projects, so I have just wasted my time on one thing instead of another.

However I have watched TV in a number of languages, and I have also made wordlists, read a fat book in Danish about occult localities in Denmark and shorter texts about a number of themes in other languages AND studied a few of these texts intensively, so all isn't pure gloom.

SER: На пример, ја сам студирао хрватске аутобуске и вожње распореде, и ја студирао воз пута користећи сајт Хрватске жељезнице храна. Хрвати користе друге речи од Срба на својим возовима. Чак и реч за "воз" је још један ("vlak") и железничка станица под називом "kolodvor" али све у свему то није било немогуће да разуме садржај сајта. Можда би требало направити трилингвално верзију са хрватски, српски и дански да се користи за проучавање разлика.

ROM: în autobuzul spre casă de la locul de muncă am citit printre altele unele texte din site-ul desteptarea.ro în limba română, de pilda un text despre poligloti celebri – dar nu numai poligloti celebri. De pilda Natalia Beketova nu-I do loc celebră. Dar nu tot în acest articol îmi pare 100% credibil:

Natalia Beketova pare o persoană obişnuită. Lucrează ca vânzătoare într-un magazin din staţiunea Anapa, aflată în regiunea Krasnodar, Rusia. Clienţii magazinului au constatat că, indiferent în ce limbă i se adresează, Natalia îi poate înţelege. Ea cunoaşte 120 de limbi. (…) profesorul de matematică i-a strigat: „Beketova! Te dau afară!” Speriată, a leşinat. Atunci când şi-a revenit din leşin, bâiguia într-o limbă străină… (…) în memoria sa trăiesc şi limbi ale unor popoare dispărute de mult timp. Chineza veche, egipteana, babiloniana, etrusca, slava veche şi multe alte limbi antice îi sunt la îndemână. În Cartea Recordurilor, de unde am selectat aceste informaţii, până la ea, Ziad Fazah, născut în Liberia, era consemnat ca fiind cel mai mare poliglot, cu 55 de limbi cunoscute.

Ei bine, această doamnă a depășit însuși Ziad Fazad? Acesta ar trebui să vină apoi ca o mare surpriză pentru toți cei care învață limbi străine! Dar mai extrem sunt afirmațiile, mai multe dovezi ar trebui să existe. Aici lipseste dovezi.

As a preparation for the voyage to Novi Sad later this year I have made some printouts from the homepage of the Croatian railways and read them in the bus back home from work. The vocabulary is not quite the same as in Serbian – even for simple things like trains and railway stations are different. But within a fairly predicable context this difficulty is surmountable.

Among the other things I have read since my last message here is a number of articles from the homepage of the Romanian newspaper Desteptarea, including an article about polyglots. Unfortunately this article isn't completely trustworthy. For instance it claims that a Russian girl fainted after her teacher had yelled at her, and when she woke up she could speak 120 (!) languages, including oddities like Ancient Chinese, Babylonian, Etruscan and Old Slavonic. Well, maybe Old Slavonic (though even this claims is somewhat extreme), but the other three are simply ridiculous. The Etruscan language has actually been lost, and only the meaning of a few words is known today (emperor Claudius was allegedly one of the last persons on the planet to know this language). And 120 languages? More than even Mr. Fazad, whose claim of 55 languages from a Brazilian edition of Guinness Record book are taken at face value, wasn't foolhardy enough to claim that many. The numbers for people like Sebastian Heine, Jorge Fernandez, Alex Rawlings and even the late Mezzofanti are more realistic (38 spoken languages for Mezzofanti), but then sir John Bowring (1792-1872) is accredited with more than 200 languages, including 100 spoken fluently. These wild claims are wellknown, but they have never been substantiated in any way, and you have to be fairly naive to believe them. He undoubtedly knew many languages (a claim corroborated by witness reports and his own writings), bút this colourful character was also known for his penchant for hyperbole. After this brief excursion into Dreamland we return to more realistic numbers with 13 languages for James Joyce, Tolkien and Champollion.


Edited by Iversen on 08 May 2014 at 4:13pm

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tastyonions
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 Message 3598 of 3959
08 May 2014 at 4:45pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Among the other things I have read since my last message here is a number of articles from the homepage of the Romanian newspaper Desteptarea, including an article about polyglots. Unfortunately this article isn't completely trustworthy. For instance it claims that a Russian girl fainted after her teacher had yelled at her, and when she woke up she could speak 120 (!) languages, including oddities like Ancient Chinese, Babylonian, Etruscan and Old Slavonic.

Haha! If only we could all be so lucky.
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Zireael
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 Message 3599 of 3959
08 May 2014 at 5:49pm | IP Logged 
Quote:
Unfortunately this article isn't completely trustworthy. For instance it claims that a Russian girl fainted after her teacher had yelled at her, and when she woke up she could speak 120 (!) languages, including oddities like Ancient Chinese, Babylonian, Etruscan and Old Slavonic.


What nonsense!
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Iversen
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4888 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 3600 of 3959
09 May 2014 at 2:43pm | IP Logged 
I have once more spent time on my "unique words used" project, based on this log. Yesterday evening I added 4 months from 2012, and finally French reached the 15.000 words which would permit a direct comparison with my old estimate of some 2.600 English used words in all of HTLAL during three months in 2007. But the third most used language (German) is still below 13.000, and I'm thinking about adding German and only German messages to the corpus just to get somewhere. The basic problem is that I wrote more in 2009 than I have done in later years: some 60.000 words for everything except English and Danish in the year from Nov. 2008 to Nov. 2009 versus 30.000 words during 16 months from the start of 2013.

But I'm right now in the process of cleaning up my English corpus of 77.000 words, so I can probably soon present a number of unique headwords used in that kind of sample, and the interesting thing is then how much the number grows compared to the 2600 headwords found in my sample with 15.000 words from the earlier test. And how the numbers for similarly sized samples differ between relatively isolating languages like English and French and a language with many composite words like German.

CAT: Vaig constatar també amb les meves noves estadístiques que algunes llengües han han rebut un nombre inferior de missatges dels últims anys, ón m'he concentrat en el primer lloc en l'irlandès i més tard diverses llengües eslaves. Però això no és prou bo, així que ara he posat una revista català de 2011 a la meva bossa, i he també llegit alguns articles en català a Internet. Altres llengües que han estat descuidats inclouen l'esperanto i el llatí.

GER: Ich habe zuerst etwas über Kometen under andere Himmelskörper auf Englisch gelesen – und nein, Aphophis wird uns nicht treffen in 2029. Dann habe ich dieselbe Themen durch Deutsche Quellen nochmals erforscht, und dadurch bin ich auf den Priester-König von Salem (Jerusalem?) Melchisedech aus Genesis 14.17-19 gestossen: Abraham soll ihn getroffen haben und ihm den Zehnten bezahlt haben. Dies hatte ich nicht erwartet im Bibel zu lesen. Welche Religion hat herr Melchisedech denn vertreten, wenn Abraham noch als Einwanderer gelebt hat? Das heiβt: wenn die beide überhaupt gelebt haben, weil es fehlt von beiden jeglichen archäologischen oder nicht-biblischen Beleg für ihre Existenz.

CAT: Despréz vaig llegir l'article en Català sobre Melchisedech, i per això vaig acabar en l'article sobre "codex", i des d'allà vaig continuar el meu camí cap al costat de "papir". En Danés "papir" es el nom de 'paper', i "papir" es "papyrus" en danés. Tot això es un poc complicat. La paraulla 'codex' es defineix de la manera següent:

"El còdex està conformat per un conjunt de fulls rectangulars de pergamí o de papir (o alternant ambdós materials) que es dobleguen formant quaderns per a escriure-hi a sobre, els quals es protegeixen mitjançant una enquadernació. Aquests quaderns, en unir-se a través de la costura, arriben a constituir el còdex complet. El còdex està conformat per un conjunt de fulls rectangulars de pergamí o de papir (o alternant ambdós materials) que es dobleguen formant quaderns per a escriure-hi a sobre, els quals es protegeixen mitjançant una enquadernació. Aquests quaderns, en unir-se a través de la costura, arriben a constituir el còdex complet."

O en altres paraulles: Un còdex és un gran llibre que no sigui escrit en paper.

I Apophis? Quan aquest asteroide va ser descobert el 2004, es va calcular que podria colpejar la terra en 2029, i que tenia de nou l'oportunitat en 2036. Però des de llavors s'ha fet càlculs més precisos, i ara l'estimat diu que volaré per davant de nosaltres en un distància d'aprox. 36.000 quilòmetres (el que és més baix que molts dels nostres satèl•lits). No ens matarà.

Edited by Iversen on 09 May 2014 at 4:07pm



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