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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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prz_
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 Message 2553 of 3959
13 August 2011 at 1:59pm | IP Logged 
I couldn't have found a better place, so I'll drop a line here: thank you for this amazing guide through learning languages. I can't wait to find an enitrely free day to read all of your tips and, let's hope, they will become useful in my further learning.

P.S. The number of "your" languages is more than impressive!
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Iversen
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 Message 2554 of 3959
13 August 2011 at 3:15pm | IP Logged 
resinteralios wrote:
Esta abertura que você escutou é o tema de abertura do programa de rádio governamental "A Voz do Brasil". Esse programa é transmitido obrigatoriamente por todas as emissoras de rádio desde 1935. Por isso, praticamente todos os brasileiros estão enjoados dessa música :)


É sintomático que uma peça de música que todos os brasileiros com ou contra a sua vontade têm vindo a conhecer pode ser totalmente desconhecida na Europa. Mas tal é o caso - conhecemos sômente Villa-Lobos aqui..

Also thanks to prz for his words of praise for my Guide to Learning Languages. It has not nearly as many readers as this log - the problem is that I rarely have new things to add to it and therefore it inevitably has a tendency to slip out of the limelight. But it contains most of the things I have to say about language learning, so I'm glad that some members still manage to find it amidst all the newer stuff.

Edited by Iversen on 13 August 2011 at 3:21pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2555 of 3959
15 August 2011 at 10:43am | IP Logged 
DU: Ik las in verschillende bronnen vrijdag van het Fries dat er ongeveer zijn. 300.000 mensen in Noord-Nederland die daadwerkelijk spreekt Fries (en niet alleen leven in een regio waar het ooit was gesproken). Ik ben er niet geweest, dus ik weet niet of het waarschijnlijk is. Bijvoorbeeld:

FRI: "De Provinsje Fryslân hat sirka 600.000 ynwenners. Likernôch de helte dervân hat net it Nederlânsk mar it Frysk as memmetaal".

DU: De Friesen draagen voorwaar ​​op de mensen z'n 'y' en '^'-toetsen!

Het moet toch worden vermeld dat het eigenlijk alleen in Nederland steeds word Fries gesproken - Noord-Fries en Oost-Fries in Duitsland zijn zo goed als uitgestorven.
Er is nu niet alleen de oude Friese dialecten, maar ook het concept van "stadtfrisisch": Friese uitspraak, maar Nederlandse woorden. En als dit is wat bedoeld wordt met 300.000 Friestalige, dan klinkt het meer waarschijnlijk, want het zou dan alleen vertegenwoordigen wat ook is gebeurd met de Schotse: de meeste Schotten spreken Schotse met 'ne Schotse uitspraak en Engelse woorden. En ze schrijven op normaal saaie standaard Engels, zoals iedereen in de wereld kan ze begrijpen. Hoe triest!

Ik wil graag een paar websites adverteren:
www1.omropfrysland.nl: Fryske tekste
www1.omroplive.nl/omrop-fyslan-tv: Fryslân TV
fy.wikipedia.org: Wikipedy ... "Ynformaasje op Wikipedy is frij en fergees te brûken en eltsenien is frij om ynformaasje ta te foegjen en te feroarjen"

I had a look at the situation of Frisian Friday (because of Chung's new Germanic profile) and was somewhat perplexed to see that several sources claimed that there are round 300.000 Frisian-speakers in the Northern part of the Netherlands, i.e. half the local population. This seemed even more unlikely given that the other variants of Frisian are close to extinct in the wild, and that I recently have seen equally extravagant claims for Friulian - where I knew from personal experience that a normal eavesdropping tourist almost exclusively will hear Italian. However a possible explanation was unwittingly given at neon/niederlandistisk/fu-berlin.de, namely that a new kind of Frisian has developed, namely 'town-Frisian' - rooughly Frisian pronunciation (and partly grammar) + Dutch words. And then things suddenly looked more likely because that is exactly what has happened to Scots: most Scots walk around speaking their language with the local pronunciation, but the 'difficult' words of true Scots have been replaced by English words. And just about everybody in Scotland spell like the Saassenachs do, because there isn't economy in producing books in true Scots. So 300.000 persons who have a Frisian pronuncation of Dutch words sounds like something that could happen, but I doubt that there are 300.000 hardcore speakers of the real mcCoy around these days.


Edited by Iversen on 15 August 2011 at 6:58pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 2556 of 3959
15 August 2011 at 1:11pm | IP Logged 
HET FRIES

NL: Ik heb wel in Friesland geweest in de jaren 80. Vooral Leeuwaarden en Sneek zijn mooie steden met veel water. Toen had ik me een taalgids "Wat & Hoe" Fries gekocht. In het jongerenkamp hadden we alleen Nederlands gesproken maar ik had contact met een Friese jonge vrouw die vlooiend Fries sprak en ook in die taal les gaf. Ze gaf me toen wat uitleg over de Friese taal, maar dat was ik na de vakantie weer vergeten.

Op mijn Nederlandse TV zender "Nederland 2" komen wel eens documentaires in het Fries met Nederlandse ondertitels. Ik kijk dan meer op de ondertitels dan dat ik het Fries volg.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 15 August 2011 at 1:38pm

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Sprachprofi
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 Message 2557 of 3959
15 August 2011 at 2:10pm | IP Logged 
Ĉu vi skribos pri la Universala Kongreso? Kiel statas via Esperanto nun?

Jen nova listo kun ligiloj al utilegaj esperantaj retejoj, ekskluzive lernoretejoj:
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=29046&
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Chung
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 Message 2558 of 3959
15 August 2011 at 4:02pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DU: Ik las inverschillende bronnen vrijdag van het Fries dat er ongeveer zijn. 300.000 mensen in Noord-Nederland die daadwerkelijk spreekt Fries (en niet alleen leven in een regio waar het ooit was gesproken). Ik ben er niet geweest, dus ik weet niet of het waarschijnlijk is. Bijvoorbeeld:

FRI: "De Provinsje Fryslân hat sirka 600.000 ynwenners. Likernôch de helte dervân hat net it Nederlânsk mar it Frysk as memmetaal".

DU: De Friesen draagen voorwaar ​​op de mensen z'n 'y' en '^'-toetsen!

Het moet toch worden vermeld dat het eigenlijk alleen in Nederland steeds word Fries gesproken - Noord-Fries en Oost-Fries in Duitsland zijn zo goed als uitgestorven.
Er is nu niet alleen de oude Friese dialecten, maar ook het concept van "stadtfrisisch": Friese uitspraak, maar Nederlandse woorden. En als dit is wat bedoeld wordt met 300.000 Friestalige, dan klinkt het meer waarschijnlijk, want het zou dan alleen vertegenwoordigen wat ook is gebeurd met de Schotse: de meeste Schotten spreken Schotse met 'ne Schotse uitspraak en Engelse woorden. En ze schrijven op normaal saaie standaard Engels, zoals iedereen in de wereld kan ze begrijpen. Hoe triest!

Ik wil graag een paar websites adverteren:
www1.omropfrysland.nl: Fryske tekste
www1.omroplive.nl/omrop-fyslan-tv: Fryslân TV
fy.wikipedia.org: Wikipedy ... "Ynformaasje op Wikipedy is frij en fergees te brûken en eltsenien is frij om ynformaasje ta te foegjen en te feroarjen"

I had a look at the situation of Frisian Friday (because of Chung's new Germanic profile) and was somewhat perplexed to see that several sources claimed that there are round 300.000 Frisian-speakers in the Northern part of the Netherlands, i.e. half the local population. This seemed even more unlikely given that the other variants of Frisian are close to extinct in the wild, and that I recently have seen equally extravagant claims for Friulian - where I knew from personal experience that a normal eavesdropping tourist almost exclusively will hear Italian. However a possible explanation was unwittingly given at neon/niederlandistisk/fu-berlin.de, namely that a new kind of Frisian has developed, namely 'town-Frisian' - rooughly Frisian pronunciation (and partly grammar) + Dutch words. And then things suddenly looked more likely because that is exactly what has happened to Scots: most Scots walk around speaking their language with the local pronunciation, but the 'difficult' words of true Scots have been replaced by English words. And just about everybody in Scotland spell like the Saassenachs do, because there isn't economy in producing books in true Scots. So 300.000 persons who have a Frisian pronuncation of Dutch words sounds like something that could happen, but I doubt that there are 300.000 hardcore speakers of the real mcCoy around these days.


That's interesting. I wonder if we could hear from someone on this board who's a native speaker of Frisian. I'd update the profile accordingly.
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Arekkusu
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 Message 2559 of 3959
15 August 2011 at 4:56pm | IP Logged 
Iversen, you'll soon be reaching your one millionth reader!!! Congratulations!
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