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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 457 of 3959
12 March 2009 at 9:14am | IP Logged 
Citation of Starfallen in the Beginner rubrik of this forum:

"Things like doing everyday activities that you normally do in English in Japanese instead. Simulating "Japanese friends" by listening to podcasts, shopping for Japanese products, taking advantage of the internet, writing yourself grocery lists in Japanese.... Sure, it's not for everyone. I certainly don't study Japanese 24/7, but I have found some of his suggestions useful."

I think this quotation is what you referred to, Iversen.

Fasulye-Babylonia

Edited by Fasulye on 12 March 2009 at 9:14am

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Iversen
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 Message 458 of 3959
12 March 2009 at 9:41am | IP Logged 
That's at least one of the references that I have read. In the meantime I have found a link to Khatzumoto-san's original blog: alljapaneseallthetime.com. I wouldn't want to change my whole life to learn just one foreign language (and which one should it be, then?), but on a more modest level I do think that it is worth thinking in terms of 'immersion at a distance'. But there are of course limits - I can't change the décor of the busses in my town, and I don't want to spend hours on making food from 4-5 language areas daily. But I do use music from relevant countries, I do use my TV set and computer for background listening, and I also have thousands of pictures from my travels at hand. But Khatzumoto is too extreme for my taste.



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Fasulye
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 Message 459 of 3959
12 March 2009 at 8:30pm | IP Logged 
EVERYDAYLIFE LANGUAGE TRANSFER - MY "NEW" LANGUAGE METHOD

First surprise: This method is not new at all, so I cannot be called the inventor of it. Many years ago my Dutch friend used precisely this method, as I describe it with the examples in my TAC log, to acquire both, the thinking and speaking ability of Esperanto. Due to his experience it worked very efficiently and also he says that he could use it independently at any random place and under any random circumstances.For me this is important to hear, because this is a kind of testimonial for the efficiency. As we are similar according to our language talent, I now have the perspective that I can reach similar effects with it as he did.

Today I also experienced the limits of this method: I was extremely tired because of the late lecture yesterday and in the canteen there was a lot of noise. As a result of both I couldn't concentrate on thinking in Turkish! So this day was clearly not favourable. I have to be fit to implement it.

Fasulye-Babylonia





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Iversen
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 Message 460 of 3959
12 March 2009 at 10:06pm | IP Logged 
I have also written about thinking in your target language as a very efficient method to make a passive language active, - for instance 5/8-08 in this string and in several places in my profile thread. A quote from the former:

My use of thinking as opposed to speaking is not very scientific: I see a tree, and I think the foreign word for tree: "Tree". Or "Green tree" if I also remember the word for 'green'. Or "This is a XYXYXYXYX tree" if I don't remember the word for 'green', but I can construct the rest of the sentence. At some point I'll look up the word for 'green', or I may just notice it while I read (and I notice it because I felt the need to know it in a concrete situation). Later on it is just a matter of coupling longer and longer constructions until you can deliberately choose to think about things in your daily life or culture or science in another language. It may be helpful to listen to a lot of talk in that language just to get the other language buzzing in your head before you try to switch, but in my experience you have to be able to understand at least a word here and there before you see an effect. Otherwise reading something may be better. And you should of course avoid to think complete sentences in your own language and then translate them. Translating is also a valuable skill, but you don't have time to translate when you think or speak.

In fact it doesn't matter who invented 'thinking' & 'finding suitable words' as a learning method, - this combination has been invented again and again simply because it works.

GR: Αυτό το απόγευμα διάβασα κάτι για το ηλιακό σύστημα σε ένα από τα περιοδικά που αγόρασα στην Γαλλία. Αλλά επειδή έχω γράψει και διαβάσει τόσα πολλά στη γαλλική γλώσσα κατά το πρόσφατο παρελθόν, σκέφτηκα ότι θα ήταν διασκεδαστικό να βρουν κάτι για το θέμα αυτό σε μία από τις γλώσσες που έχουν παραμεληθεί τα τελευταία χρόνια, και επέλεξε την ελληνική γλώσσα. Σε αυτή την κατάσταση Συνήθως χρησιμοποιώ το Google, αλλά για να πάρω κάτι από το Google, πρέπει να τον τροφοδοτήσει με κατάλληλη λέξη-κλειδί.. Γιατί άνοιξαε την ιστοσελίδα Lexilogos. Ανακάλυψα στη συνέχεια ότι αυτή η σελίδα δε μόνο προσφέρει τον εξαιρετικό σύστημα των πληκτρολόγιων, αλλά και ένα φορούμ για την συζήτηση των διαφόρων γλωσσών - χρειάστηκαν πολλές ώρες για να μου ξεκολλήσω από τότε. Όταν τελικά εξέτασαν κάτι τόσο απλό όσο η λέξη "αστρονομία", βρήκα πολλές αναφορές σε συλλόγους για ερασιτέχνες αστρονόμους, όπως του συλλόγου της Fasulye. Διάβάζασα μεταξύ άλλων την είδηση στην ιστοσελίδα http://www.greekastronomy.gr, και εδώ στάθηκε για παράδειγμα κάτι για την ανακάλυψη ενός αλλοδαπού ηλιακού συστήματος με 5 εξοπλανήτες - σ'αυτό το θέμα είχαμε για μια συζήτησει. Επίσης, διαπίστωσε ότι οι Έλληνες αναφέρονται στους πλανήτες στο δικό μας ηλιακό σύστημα με τους δικόυς τους ονόματα θεών, το οποίο είναι απολύτως λογικό (αλλά ελαφρώς συγκεχυμένη). Έχω συγκέντρωσε ορισμένες χρήσιμες λέξεις που τώρα θέλω να γράψω σ τους λεξιλογίους μου: κατασκοπευτικός δορυφόρος, συντριβή, ερασιτεχνικός αστρονόμος, μαúρα τρýπα κλπ. Είναι μια καλή συγκομιδή.

----------

I read something about our Solar system earlier today in "Science et Vie" (one of the magazines I brought home from France). But I have read and written so much in French lately that I wanted to work in another language that needed the attention more than French, so I decided to try to find something in Greek. For these kinds of searches I use Goggle with a suitable 'seed', but when I opened Lexilogos to write this 'seed' I discovered that that homepage not only has the best keyboard systems anywhere in the universe, but also a forum with some quite interesting discussions. I lost a lot of time there, for instance on a link to an Albanian morphology (it seems that the definite article in Albanian after all isn't quite the same thing as in Romanian, but let's leave that theme for later). Somehow I succeeded in getting back to astronomy - indeed with the word "αστρονομία" as my seed (it is of course a Greek word), and I read among other things the news on http://www.greekastronomy.gr - a homepage for Greek amateur astronomers (something like Fasulye's astronomy club). I learned for instance that a foreign solar system with 5 planets has been found, which of course reminded me of the old discussion we have had here about exoplanets. I also noticed that the Greeks use the names of their own gods for the planets (and that's of course quite logical, but a little confusing). Finally I have noted down a lot of useful terms for inclusion in my wordlists, such as the Greek words for spy satellite, crash, amateur astronomer and black holes et cetera. Methinks a fair harvest for so little time invested.


By the way, I just noticed that Afrikaans is now one of the languages you can search for - but not yet translate.


Edited by Iversen on 13 March 2009 at 12:01am

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Jar-ptitsa
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 Message 461 of 3959
13 March 2009 at 1:15am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Voor de studenten van Fins mag het misschien interessant zijn dat het Nationaal Museum in Helsinki heeft bordjes, die beweren dat de Finnen hebben daar sinds het stenen tijdperk geleeft. Natuurlijk kan ik niet zeggen of dat waar is, - ik was niet daar op dat moment.


LOL!!! Als je toen wel daar was geweest, zou je zelf in het museum staan, als expositie.

I've heard that there's the possibility visit Father Christmas (Santa) there, in norht Finland!!
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Fasulye
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 Message 462 of 3959
13 March 2009 at 7:13am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I have also written about thinking in your target language as a very efficient method to make a passive language active, - for instance 5/8-08 in this string and in several places in my profile thread. A quote from the former:

My use of thinking as opposed to speaking is not very scientific: I see a tree, and I think the foreign word for tree: "Tree". Or "Green tree" if I also remember the word for 'green'. Or "This is a XYXYXYXYX tree" if I don't remember the word for 'green', but I can construct the rest of the sentence. At some point I'll look up the word for 'green', or I may just notice it while I read (and I notice it because I felt the need to know it in a concrete situation). Later on it is just a matter of coupling longer and longer constructions until you can deliberately choose to think about things in your daily life or culture or science in another language. It may be helpful to listen to a lot of talk in that language just to get the other language buzzing in your head before you try to switch, but in my experience you have to be able to understand at least a word here and there before you see an effect. Otherwise reading something may be better. And you should of course avoid to think complete sentences in your own language and then translate them. Translating is also a valuable skill, but you don't have time to translate when you think or speak.

In fact it doesn't matter who invented 'thinking' & 'finding suitable words' as a learning method, - this combination has been invented again and again simply because it works.


NL: Leuk, een Griekse astronomiesite! Interessant, dat ze voor de planetenamen de Griekse goden gebruiken. Ik heb het maar even bekeken, maar ik begrijp de taal gewoon niet.

De link is goed, want ik had die post van jou, die je nu citeert, nog niet gevonden en gelezen. Het opmerkelijke bij mij is eigenlijk dat het denken in vreemde talen bij mijn andere talen vanzelf is gekomen en dat ik het bij het Turks moet forceren. Want het wil maar niet komen vanzelf. Ik ben natuurlijk een mens die sowieso een groot deel van de dag in vreemde talen denkt. Daarom vind ik het interessant om te lezen, als ik zo'n denkproces wil forceren, hoe jij zoiets doet. Ik denk ook niet dat mijn "sequential learning" mij in de weg staat, want dat heb ik nodig om de grammatica en de taalstructuren van het Turks goed te leren.

Toen ik mijn vakanties in Frankrijk doorbracht, had ik helemaal niet de kans om in Franse boekenwinkels of tijdschriftenwinkels naar lectuur rondtekijken. Want ik deelde het leven van Franse mensen in gastfamilies.We waren in de Franse taal met het gewone leven bezig, dus ik kwam toen geen enkele keer in een Franse boekenwinkel. Terwijl ik in Nederland altijd in tijdschriftenwinkels en boekenwinkels rondkijk.

Vanavond zal bij mij in de astronomieclub een voordracht zijn. Mocht het iets interessants opleveren, zal ik hier in jouw log berichten.

Fasulye-Babylonia


Edited by Fasulye on 13 March 2009 at 9:17am

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 Message 463 of 3959
13 March 2009 at 9:25am | IP Logged 
Jar-ptitsa wrote:

I've heard that there's the possibility visit Father Christmas (Santa) there, in norht Finland!!


There certainly is. Here are the hard facts: there is a big Santa-land (some kind of Disneyland I suppose, - I haven't visited it), and just where the Polar circle is supposed to cross the main road northwards out of Rovaniemi there is a big building with a lot of Santa-oriented stuff - all year round! The thing they have forgotten to mention is that the Polar Circle isn't crossing the road there any more. The rotation axis of the Earth is wiggling a little, and that means that the Poles, The Polar circles, Equinoxes and Equator all move slightly - and now the Polar circle is running through the airport of Rovaniemi a few kilometers further North. So there may be people who think they have crossed the Polar Circle, but just failed to do it. I made that mistake during my first visit there, - that was before they built the Santa monsterhouse.

B.t.w. the same thing applies to the Equator. In Ecuador there is a marker for the Equator, but because it has moved the correct place to be is now a few kilometers away at an extinct volcano, which I have had the pleasure of visiting some years ago.

And now for the big question: where does Santa live? Some say the North Pole, some say Greenland and the Finns look at their wallets and say Rovaniemi. I feel certain that at least Rudolph the Reindeer lives in Rovaniemi, because there aren't any reindeer in Greenland (could you see Father Christmas on a dog sledge? - that would be Greenland). His marketing department certainly lies in Finland, but Santa would be a fool to stay there. My guess is that he lives most of the year in an igloo on Greenland just to get away from all that commercialism that the Finns have built up around him. And around Christmas nobody can find him because of the millions of stressed family fathers in red coats and false beards that run around everywhere.

Fasulye wrote:

NL: Leuk, een Griekse astronomiesite! Interessant, dat ze voor de planetenamen de Griekse goden gebruiken. Ik heb het maar even bekeken, maar ik begrijp de taal gewoon niet.
Toen ik mijn vakanties in Frankrijk doorbracht, had ik helemaal niet de kans om in Franse boekenwinkels of tijdschriftenwinkels naar lectuur rondtekijken. Want ik deelde het leven van Franse mensen in gastfamilies.


Ik zal proberen een lijst van namen van planeten in het Grieks te maken. De meeste namen kan ik waarschijnlijk raden, maar ik wil er zeker zijn.

De tijdschriften die ik gekocht heb in Frankrijk zijn alle beschikbaar in gewone winkels en kiosks, bijvoorbeeld in de stations.

Wat het denken in vreemde talen anbelangt, het verbaast me dat niet meer word gesproken over de mogelijkheid om te denken - alle voeren tagelijks zijn hoofd overal, terwijl er mogelijk ver is tussen de sprekers van de taal dat je wilt leren.


Edited by Iversen on 13 March 2009 at 10:07am

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Fasulye
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 Message 464 of 3959
13 March 2009 at 9:49am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
The thing they have forgot to mention is that the Polar Circle isn't crossing the road thee any more. The rottion axis of the Earth is wiggling a little, and that means that the Poles, The Polar circles, Equinoxes and Equator all move slightly - and now the Polar circle is running through the airport of Rovaniemi a few kilometers further North. So there may be people who think they have crossed the Polar Circle, but just failed to do it. B.t.w. the same thing applies to the Equator. In Ecuador there is a marker for the Equator, but because it has moved the correct place is now a bit away at an extinct volcanoe, which I have had the pleasure of visiting some years ago.


That's astronomically interesting!! I heard and read a lot about "die Präzession der Erdachse" = "the precession of Earth's axis", but I have never realized the practical result of it. But you have experienced it and that is for me very interesting to read.

Fasulye-Babylonia

Edited by Fasulye on 13 March 2009 at 10:04am



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