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Irish Gaelic - Donegal dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| zorbo Triglot Newbie United States Joined 6030 days ago 7 posts - 10 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, FrenchC2 Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 1 of 9 20 December 2008 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello Professor, hello readers,
I have a growing interest in studying the Irish language; I always have but I have felt reluctant to do so for a couple of reasons. Primarily, the dialect that is most frequently taught is Standard Irish, which as I understand it is based mostly on the dialect of Connaught (Galway) with some additions from Munster Irish. I, however, find myself more interested in learning the Donegal dialect (for those readers who may not be aware, "Donegal" is pronounced "dunny-GAWL") of this language. My father, while he is from the Donegal Gaeltacht, does not speak Irish although he grew up hearing it and his parents were bilingual. Because I have a direct connection to this region, albeit from afar (I live in New York City), I feel that it would make more sense, indeed feel more authentic to me, to learn the Donegal dialect of the Irish language. In Ireland, this dialect is for some reason stigmatized; although I think it is beautiful. I do not know or understand why, nor is that stigma important to me: I consider it someone else's stigma - not mine. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of materials for learning this dialect. Some resources that I do know of are "Irish On Your Own", "Tus Maith" (which apparently has recordings of native and non-native speakers) and the BBC's Irish language learning website. I welcome any feedback you are able to provide on this topic, but I do want to ask what would you consider a good way to learn this dialect? Do you think it would make sense to start off with Linguaphone's dialect (I believe it's Munster) and then focus on learning the Donegal dialect. There are also language classes given here in New York City but the dialect taught is that of the Aran Islands, a Connaught variety. Anyway, I'd be grateful to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks for being available, Owen 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7037 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes  | Message 2 of 9 24 December 2008 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello Owen,
Whenever a topic like this comes up, I realize how very much I love the Irish language and this is turn makes me at least momentarily wish that I could somehow be less wide-ranging in my interests so that I could give her the attention and care she deserves… Unfortunately, I have no particular leads or information about the Donegal dialect, but I do have some thoughts on the matter. From the studies I have done, I know that the introduction to any given manual discusses the issue of dialects in light of the fact that the differences between some of them are supposedly so great as to impede communication. For a heritage speaker like yourself, presumably interested in communicating with the inhabitants of your ancestral hometown, I can see why this would be a cause for concern. However, while I do not dismiss these differences, I think it is very much a question, not so much of perspective, but of having your microscope turned to the maximum magnification, as it were, and that it is also quite possible to turn it down a bit and to treat “Gaelic” as a whole diachronic entity beginning with Old Irish and including all of the Irish AND Scottish dialects and even shading into Manx, which does indeed seem to be a bit more truly different. So, in my own studies I have frankly never worried about which particular dialect I am encountering at the moment, but have simply studied every good manual and read every interesting text I could find. By doing this, I feel I have brought myself well into the overall high-intermediate range of knowledge, and that I am perfectly ready to immerse myself in a Gaeltacht town for a few weeks should my life circumstances somehow permit that (and, if they ever will, it will not be for a few years yet, until my sons are somewhat more grown and I can stand to be apart from them for that long) so as to activate my knowledge and bring it to life. I understand that your goals are different from mine, and that you will probably want to leave Manx, Scottish, and Old Irish out of the picture. However, I think it would be best for you not to worry overmuch about dialects at the beginning of your studies, and rather simply to concentrate on getting as firm a foundation in Irish overall as you can by being sure that you learn from a variety of different materials. The best I know are indeed the Linguaphone course plus Micheal O Siadhail’s Learning Irish (Yale University Press: New Haven and London, 1988). Once you have studied thoroughly enough to bring yourself into the intermediate range of knowledge, then you should certainly arrange to do your immersion in the Donegal Gaeltacht, where you can apologize for any other dialectal traits you may have picked up (as well as for having been given a Welsh name!), and explain that you really want to focus on acquiring their manner of speech, as it is at this crystallizing or gelling stage that you can best achieve this. Of course, it would be nice if some of your initial learning materials did indeed center around your ultimate target dialect, and actually I would be willing to wager that such sources do indeed exist, though they will take some tracking down. Because it has been actively promoted by the government for close to a century now, Irish tends to have a greater variety of textbooks than do many other languages. However, most of them have been put out by small local presses, have little distribution, and go out of print rapidly, so they can only be found rather randomly by browsing in used book shops – and when you do find them, there is no guarantee that they will be particularly good: I have seen a few outstanding ones, but most tend to be on the weak side. I would suggest that you take advantage of the ease of communication afforded by the internet age to track down and get in touch with some municipalities in the Dongegal Gaeltacht – boards of education and the like. I imagine that you will find that some sources do exist, and that the people there are helpfully happy to provide you with them; at very least you will make some contacts with whom to arrange your all important immersion visit several years down the line. Best of luck to you! Alexander Arguelles 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6097 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 3 of 9 24 December 2008 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just a footnote to what the Professor has said about dialects: there is an apparently very good DVD entirely in Irish Gaelic that contains different dialects from different regions of Ireland. I am aware it also comes with a book containing transcripts of the interviews with various Irish folk as well as vocabularly lists and the like. It seems like an indispensible resource for learning Irish, and is partly tempting me to choose it instead of Welsh someday, should a similar DVD for Welsh not be published.
Here is a link to the product on Amazon Christopher Button Edited by ChristopherB on 24 December 2008 at 2:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shane.dun Newbie Ireland Joined 5593 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Irish | Message 4 of 9 26 December 2008 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | ||
I would just learn Irish in whatever dialect you can. Once you pick up the vocabulary and the pronunciation, you can learn how to switch dialects. It is just a matter of pronouncing the vowels differently and picking up on some different words. It is not so difficult to speak, but it can be really hard to listen to a native donegal speaker. Sorry if this post does not provide you with much help. If I can be of any more assistance, let me know. It is great to see non-Irish people taking an interest in the language. Edited by shane.dun on 26 December 2008 at 1:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Inno Newbie France Joined 6128 days ago 17 posts - 17 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 9 28 December 2008 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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Regarding the book 'Learning Irish' by Mícheál ó Siadhail, recommended by the professor: you can find some lessons here.
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| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6220 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 6 of 9 04 January 2009 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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Standard Irish (if you want to call it that), only really comes into play with pronunciation. The grammar is pretty much the same, and you learn the vocabulary differences anyway. My advice would be to learn any Irish you can (as suggested), and then try to listen to material in the Donegal dialect to pick it up. Nearly all publications are spelled the same anyway (bar a few who use non-standard spellings to reflect dialects), so it's really by listening to the Donegal dialect, and by talking to native speakers you will pick it up.
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| Stephen Groupie Australia Joined 6192 days ago 61 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 7 of 9 10 February 2009 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi
I have lived in the Donegal Gaeltacht for almost a decade and would recommend you learn the Ulster/Donegal (They are the same) Irish for many reasons. Firstly it is the closest dialect to Scots Gaelic and understanding one when you have learned the other is highly probable. My father in law was born and raised in an Donegal Irish speaking household but emigrated young to Scotland, but always kept the language and could also understand the Scots gaelic speakers he met in person and on the TV. Second, the West and especially the north west of Ireland has retained much of the cultures and traditions that the vast majority of Ireland has lost and the Ulster Dialect is not only still used but undergoing a whole renaissance. Third this is the dialect which is used in Northern Ireland where many people on the nationalist tradition have used and retained it as a sense of their Gaelic and Irish heritage; as opposed to say the British tradition of the Unionist community. As far as resources goes, I have two tried and tested recommendations for you. First is to go to Oideas Gael http://www.oideas-gael.com/ where they have a great selection of courses and stuff: but more importantly for their shop which has anything and everything you could imagine as far as learning Irish and especially Donegal Irish. Secondly in my opinion, the best course I have encountered is one called "Now your Talking' http://www.ccruni.gov.uk/research/directory/utnytw.htm http://www.amazon.co.uk/Now-Youre-Talking-Multi-Media-Beginn ers/dp/0717123448 I remember loads from that course and formed the basis of what Irish I know. Adh mor ort! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7037 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 8 of 9 15 February 2009 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just a note saying that I have acquired the book mentioned by Mr. Button above:
Speaking Irish: An Ghaeilge Bheo: Take your Language Skills Beyond Basics by Siuán Ní Mnaonaigh and Antain MacLochlainn (McGraw Hill: 2008). It is indeed a well-produced and most valuable intermediate-advanced level resource. Not a substitute for visiting the Gaeltacht, of course, but, in the absence of that opportunity, certainly the next best thing as it is quite an outstanding simulation. I only wish such resources existed for many other languages! Thank you so much for providing the lead, Christopher Button! AA 1 person has voted this message useful |
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