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When some teachers are blunt | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6464 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 25 of 32 16 January 2009 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
So people speaking English should not try to improve their accent? When I hear someone speaking good Swedish with a native like accent (something I have only seen once on Youtube) I am amazed and impressed and want to applaud them. Thinking that they are pretentious or something of that kind wouldn't even cross my mind. I would think most Swedes think the same way. I can somewhat see your accent point, but for some people (like Scandinavians) I think going all in for a radically different pronunciation can be easier than just going halfways and speaking neutral English, as we then just assimilate the English letters and words to our own, which are often similar. My boyfriend for example speaks with a very American accent and speaks well, whereas I have no English or American accent but probably just sound weird. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fcavalheiro Diglot Groupie Brazil Joined 5882 days ago 54 posts - 54 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German, Mandarin | Message 26 of 32 16 January 2009 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I actually think she didn't want to let you do the advanced test because many teachers and language schools want the students to be there the most time possible. I know an English teacher that was responsible for placement tests. His school had 10 different levels, and he said that if someone had an 8 or 9 level, for instance, the person would be placed in level 6 or 7.
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| Starfallen Groupie United States Joined 5603 days ago 43 posts - 49 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 27 of 32 16 January 2009 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
No, not it's not that they shouldn't. It's just slightly surprising to me when I hear someone who I could mistake for a native English speaker. It's going above and beyond. There are a lot of different accents in America alone, depending on the region, so it would catch me off guard if someone who had never been to Boston started speaking English to me with a Boston accent. (I'm not from Boston, but just to use an example). I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't mind people retaining some of their natural native accent when they speak English. In some cases, it's just part of who they are. I don't typically expect non native speakers to speak with a perfect American accent, and I don't look down on them if they don't. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Deji Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5226 days ago 116 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Hindi, Bengali | Message 28 of 32 21 November 2010 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
So people speaking English should not try to improve their accent? No, no, I wouldn't say that--but one does have to realize that you do choose WHICH accent you will imitate in your target language--and you may be walking into regional or social reactions that are not obvious to you . Does it matter? I won't try to answer that. I met a French man at an Alliance Francaise mixer in Paris who spoke PERFECT English--but every time he opened his mouth I wanted to giggle. Why? Because he had an absolutely classic cockney accent. I think a slight french accent would have been better. I wouldn't suggest that a foreigner learn English with a strong southern accent...unless you KNOW that you are going to live and interact in the South. And I wouldn't learn French with a Midi accent, either. Of course, English people might feel that way about someone who speaks with a strong American accent. I have also chatted with Indians on language sites (in India, mind you) online who, it seemed to me, were trying very hard to copy an American accent. I felt that they might have sounded MUCH better just sticking to the Indian/English style, which is more comfortable for them, rather than trying to copy our American hard "r" which came out in a particularly grating way. This, however, does not apply so much to the younger urban generation in India--who are more exposed to American movies, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Deji Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5226 days ago 116 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Hindi, Bengali | Message 29 of 32 21 November 2010 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is an interesting quesion, though. I have experienced it in French as well--to the point where I wanted to say: (in french, but it had better be perfect!) "Chere Madame! From the bottom of my heart I beg of you--let ME massacre the French language. But please--give me a good example! It is not necessary that you yourself speak French like a Spanish cow!" In fact, this attitude was mocked in the one of the French bande dessinee (comic books) "Les Bidouchon" books (VERY funny series) in which a French tour group has a Russian french-speaking guide. They refuse to understand her, though she speaks perfect French "Yes, I taught French for eight years in a bilingual school in Paris" she says, to no avail. They designate one of their group to "translate" for her. He repeats what she says exactly, so they can "understand" it. This goes on through the entire tour of the Kremlin. Seems to me this attitude is a a kind of one-upsmanship. A reaction on the part of rather rigid small-minded people who are looking down on foreigners with the attitude that "you don't know anything" --to the point where what they think is "you are so ignorant that I don't even need to actually listen to you". On the OTHER hand, I have heard that speaking Japanese, with FIVE different levels of social distinctions/tenses/honorifics, is full of social traps and almost impossible for the foreigner to avoid putting their foot in it socially. Is it possible that these mistakes are being made? Of course if you WERE making them unknowingly, you wouldn't know it! This point I cannot judge. Even if this were the case, one would, of course, also expect that a teacher would point this out in a kindly way. I do defend the French who bristle at our American casual style. In France, by god, all interactions MUST be preceded by "Bonjour, Madame/Monsieur/Mademoiselle/Mesdames "etc. You don't charge into a store and just ask for bandaids. If you do, you have stepped on toes without knowing it. Then you will find the French very unfriendly. My non-French-speaking sister-in-law did very well there by going in a store, saying "Bonjour Monsieur/etc, I apologize, but I do not speak French. Is there someone here who speaks English?" This was properly ceremonious and respectful and always got a good reaction. Edited by Deji on 21 November 2010 at 8:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Siberiano Tetraglot Senior Member Russian Federation one-giant-leap.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6279 days ago 465 posts - 696 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, ItalianC1, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Serbian | Message 30 of 32 21 November 2010 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
This kind of people may come one's way all the time, not only in languages. I want to avoid cliches, and share a deeper thought: notice that she dumped on you. Dumped some agression and bad emotions, made you feel worse and herself better of course. You weren't supposed to be an emotional toilet for her at all, it's not your job, nor a part of the test. So, the best way would be not to agree to this let-me-dump-on-you "deal", and stay confident and calm all the time, just saying "no, do it this way". I must admit, I'm not this cool every time, often I get engaged into anger exchange. What I know for sure is that if I comply, I'm not guaranteed to get _anythig_ that I came for. After they find out I'm soft and complying, they might go further and refuse to do anything. Just an example: in some restaurants the waiters try to tell you not to make pictures, etc, then call the manager, and if they're an asshole and you try to comply, it may quickly lead to being told to get out (even if you can get them punished legally, in this case they are sure you won't even try). So, a good rule to follow is to not comply and at least contest "why?" But what if she says "no test, go away"? Oh, well, she's not the boss there, is she? "Let me talk to the boss, what's your name? I'll write it down. Oh, you're the only bosses' employee here, great!" Even if she's the boss, would you like to deal with her "service" anymore? I don't think so. Just as in the case of the rude restaurant manager, if you let them dump on you, they might not give you what you need, especially if you're not paying. Getting angry and trying to dump on them more than them won't get you anything. So, another rule to follow is to maintain composure - knowing that if they freak out and you are cool, you're the one who's superior. (Wish I followed this all the time.) 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| noriyuki_nomura Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5126 days ago 304 posts - 465 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Japanese, FrenchC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, SpanishB2, DutchB1 Studies: TurkishA1, Korean | Message 31 of 32 22 November 2010 at 10:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ironically, I find that the examiners that I had encountered so far to be really friendly and encouraging towards exam candidates, with the exception of the DALF exam that I took (who seemed really bored and uninterested). I think, the Spanish/Italian examiners were one of the friendliest I have ever met, and that gave one a more relaxed feeling to really speak/chat with them, especially during the oral exam.
As for rude teachers, I attended an Italian class in Singapore before, and there was this new Italian teacher who just replaced our previous one, who unfortunately had to teach another class (since it was a rule that a class cannot have the same teacher for 2 semesters consecutively in a row). Goodness, the new teacher was constantly talking in her schriekingly sharp voice at us, at every possible accent that we pronounced wrongly, or every word that was used wrongly, and that really created an atmosphere of 'fear' and 'anxiety' among us. Language learning quickly became a chore rather than a path to a discovery of a foreign culture/history for us, especially when the class was comprised of working adults. I still think that, one can learn much faster if he/she enjoys the language, rather than like a spoon forcefully fed upon him/her. Edited by noriyuki_nomura on 22 November 2010 at 10:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5157 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 32 of 32 28 November 2010 at 2:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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I deeply dislike the negative attitudes of foreign language teachers...After all you
are doing them a favour...You are learning their target language and you are paying them good to learn their target language...Some languages teachers have no concept of customer service. In my many years of experience of learning French...I had good,bad and average French language tutors...At the moment I have a French online tutor and she's a French- speaking Belgian and she is good and I like her very much...Perhaps being Belgian she doesn't carry the traditional French arrogance...So I will continue to stick with my Belgian tutor for another while at least. I think that having a good rapport with a language tutor is essental...Otherwise if you do not have a good rapport with your language teacher...Then you are certainly wasting your time and money. Edited by stout on 28 November 2010 at 2:13am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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