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Should I learn Danish or Norwegian? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| taKen Tetraglot Senior Member Norway mindofthelinguist.woRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5898 days ago 176 posts - 210 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Dutch, French Studies: German, Icelandic | Message 33 of 49 21 July 2009 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, Danish is the one that's most similiar to actual German. Norwegian Nynorsk has the least German loanwords since it's based on a puristic approach to everything that Danish and other languages brought to the Norwegian language after 1387.
But hold on, this isn't so scary as it sounds. You can actually choose which words you want to use when writing Norwegian Nynorsk. "To Begin" can be either å byrja, which is að byrja in Old Norse, or it can be "å begynne", which comes from Low German: beginnen. So it's entirely up to you how you want your written language to look like. People coming from Oslo tend to resist Nynorsk a lot, which to some extent is understandable. But how would they react if people in the West of Norway would refuse learning Bokmål? Several people from Oslo use the argument that "we can all understand each other, so why bother using two forms instead of just Bokmål"? Well it hasn't really so much to do with the practicality of having two forms of writing, it has to do with taking care of our heritage and being able to respect those who chose to do so. Language is all about identity, therefore you shouldn't have to defend your language. Defending your choice of language is just like defending your right to exist. Norwegians who are really against this form of the language are inclined to make fun of it because it can tend to sound hopelessly old-fashioned, but if you "do some digging" you'll see that how you actually write Norwegian Nynorsk is up to yourself. You can choose lots of forms for the same word, but it's recommended by the Norwegian Council of Language that you consequently stick to one form of writing, it's not allowed to use several forms of the same word in one single text. Here's an example, as to which how you can conjugate the verb "to become": To become -> became -> has become 1) Å verte -> vart -> har vorte OR har vorti 2) Å bli -> vart -> har vorte OR har vorti (this 2nd option is my own choice since I say "æ blir, æ vart & æ ha vyrti) 3) Å bli -> blei -> har vorte OR har vorti (In Bokmål you're only allowed to write "Å bli -> ble -> har blitt", I would never ever say "ble" or "blitt") The great thing about this for Norwegians is that they can write a Norwegian Nynorsk that's not too far from what they actually speak in their everyday lives. Most people aren't aware of this and frankly don't care too much because of two things: 1: Bokmål is used by about 85 % percent of the population. It dominates the newspapers, tv channels, books and magazines. 2: Norwegians are brought up with this one dominant form of Norwegian, and because of this fact that they tend to resent this "new form" that they encounter in school. I, for one, write Norwegian Nynorsk. This is a very conscious choice, since I've been writing Norwegian Bokmål all my life. I find that my own version of Nynorsk is much more attractive, since it's allowed to use so many of the words that I use every day in my own dialect. When I write I tend to take my time and really think about how I can produce something truly beautiful. This probably has something to do with the fact that Nynorsk feels like my own language, it receives more respect than Bokmål because it's closer to my identity. Bokmål feels like something that doesn't truly belong to me, since I associate that form of Norwegian with "Østlandet" and Oslo, and it really sounds different from my own way of speech. While writing Nynorsk I really feel much more in touch with my roots. Here are some examples of words in Nynorsk (/my dialect) that are almost or entirely identical to both Icelandic and Faroese: WATER: Icelandic vatn, Faroese vatn, Nynorsk vatn, My dialect vatn, Bokmål vann SHORT: Icelandic lágur, Faroese lágur, Nynorsk låg, My dialect låg, Bokmål lav ROAD/"WAY": Icelandic vegur, Faroese vegur, Nynorsk veg, My dialect væg, Bokmål vei "TO SEE": Icelandic að sjá, Farose að sjá, Nynorsk å sjå, My dialect å sjå, Bokmål å se HOME: Icelandic heim, Faroese heim, Nynorsk heim, My dialect heim, Bokmål hjem HUNGRY: Icelandic hungraður, Faroese svangur, Nynorsk svolten OR hungrig, My dialect hungri, Bokmål sulten HOUSEFLY: Icelandic fluga, Faroese fluga, Nynorsk fluga, My dialect fluggu, Bokmål flue If you're a foreigner who wishes to learn Norwegian, you should in any case learn Bokmål if you're going to a "Bokmål region", like the East part of the country. If you're going to my part of the country, it would really impress and even amaze Norwegians that you took the effort to learn Nynorsk. It's much more charming to hear a foreigner speaking Nynorsk than Bokmål. It might give the impression that you're in love with Norway and Norwegian culture, rather than just looking for some random country to live in. In any case, knowing Nynorsk will help a great deal in understanding Norwegian dialects since it's basically based on their common traits. While being a bit off-topic, I hope my answer might clear up why some Norwegians write Nynorsk while others write Bokmål. Edited by taKen on 22 July 2009 at 6:04pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| taKen Tetraglot Senior Member Norway mindofthelinguist.woRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5898 days ago 176 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Dutch, French Studies: German, Icelandic | Message 34 of 49 21 July 2009 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sorry, double post. Edited by taKen on 21 July 2009 at 10:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| snig Groupie United Kingdom Joined 5671 days ago 71 posts - 79 votes Studies: Italian | Message 35 of 49 21 July 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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HOME: Icelandic heim, Faroese heim, Nynorsk heim, My dialect heim, Bokmål hjem
if this word is pronounced the way I'm reading it? it's the same word the people in the north east of England use for the word "HOME"(slang useage),maybe someone can confirm if thats the case,hope it is that would be cool! Edited by snig on 22 July 2009 at 12:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5619 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 36 of 49 22 July 2009 at 11:11am | IP Logged | ||
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It's lovely that people are interested in the Scandinavian languages! This is a quesiton that we have seen before...
I re-iterate that it doesn't matter much. The important thing is that you start studying, since you have a lot of work ahead of you. The reason it doesn't matter is that the languages are mutually intelligible and there is a lot of goodwill between the countries in the region. If you were to start with Swedish but realise that you liked Danish better, you could change further down the line. You could even speak a mix of all three if you fancied! That's what some Icelandic people sound like when they visit the "mainland". If you were to live in Finland or Northern Sweden, you could even throw in some Finnish words to spice it up! To illustrate the point; the individual Scandinavian / Nordic threads in this forum are used interchangeably by people from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland. Everybody joins in the discussions in the other countries' forum. People like Tupiniqium, Taka and a few others on the forum have learnt one of the languages to a good standard and can therefore more or less understand all. The key is to pick one and start studying! Edited by cordelia0507 on 22 July 2009 at 11:25am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5690 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 37 of 49 22 July 2009 at 11:34am | IP Logged | ||
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That's true, Cordelia. I'd have to disagree on the mixing though, but you already knew that :-) Just doesn't sound right to me!
In terms of the situation in Norway, I think we'd probably all agree that a statement like "I know nynorsk, but I don't understand bokmål very well" would make the person look somewhat ridiculous, and more than a little misinformed about what they ought to have been learning and in what order to be able to cope with Norwegian... Most people write in bokmål, so nynorsk is in large part for "de spesielt interesserte". Knowing nynorsk may charm the heck out of some people, but it would be assumed that if a foreigner learned nynorsk it would be after learning bokmål. Nynorsk isn't the form taught to immigrants in beginner's courses, nor is it - as far as I know - given as an option in those courses over bokmål. You can get by just fine never studying nynorsk, but I'm not so sure about the other way around... Liz Edited by Lizzern on 22 July 2009 at 11:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| taKen Tetraglot Senior Member Norway mindofthelinguist.woRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5898 days ago 176 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Dutch, French Studies: German, Icelandic | Message 38 of 49 22 July 2009 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Foreigners are taught Nynorsk in the West of Norway. Bokmål would be in general ideal to begin with, but if you want to settle in Norway, Nynorsk would help a lot in understanding the various dialects. Have any of you people ever heard real Sognamål? If you haven't, then you shouldn't really comment too much without knowing what you're talking about. I've read Norwegians from Oslo commenting on lyrics of a band (Windir) who sings in Sognamål, and most of them think it's freakin' Old Norse because they can't understand anything at all. Knowing Nynorsk helps a lot if you're not native to this or any other dialect. Edited by taKen on 22 July 2009 at 6:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| taKen Tetraglot Senior Member Norway mindofthelinguist.woRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5898 days ago 176 posts - 210 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Dutch, French Studies: German, Icelandic | Message 39 of 49 22 July 2009 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||
I find that very, very interesting. If you could upload your pronunciation I would be more than happy to comment. Edited by taKen on 22 July 2009 at 6:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5690 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 40 of 49 22 July 2009 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | ||
In some parts of western Norway. It's worth noting, perhaps, that in some of these places even native speakers of Norwegian from other parts of the country might have some initial difficulty understanding the local dialect. It takes some adjustment for everybody, but for the country as a whole, I think the general rule 'bokmål first' is the most valid... The common thing is to learn bokmål and then just adjust to local dialects. Some would say we speak nynorsk (more or less) where I'm from, but we were taught it basically as a second language for a couple of years in school. After that I never studied it further, because I never needed to, it doesn't come up very often and when it does those of us who don't know the language in detail can mostly follow it anyway just knowing bokmål and understanding dialects in general. Look, not trying to insult you in any way here, I guess I just don't have the same appreciation for nynorsk that you do. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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