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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
164 messages over 21 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 ... 20 21 Next >>
icing_death
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5621 days ago

296 posts - 302 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 73 of 164
27 March 2009 at 11:43pm | IP Logged 
Bob Greaves wrote:
I am sorry to make this this thread even longer without adding anything significant. I would like to remind all that this forum is called, and I assume meant to be about, How to Learn Any Language. It's not about how to display one's erudition, nor is it about how to slag off systems/methods that one doesn't like or hasn't tried.
Instead let's say thanks to aYa and those that genuinely try to help.
If you don't like L-R to just leave it there and move on (unless there is really something helpful to contribute).

There's nothing wrong with criticizing a method. Debating it's validity may prove useful to some.
1 person has voted this message useful



Kubelek
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal
Joined 6612 days ago

415 posts - 528 votes 
Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish
Studies: German

 
 Message 74 of 164
28 March 2009 at 1:17am | IP Logged 
Has anyone tried LRing with the text they didn't know before? I have problems gathering materials for the books I have read repeatedly. There are many books that I'd like to read though, so I was thinking about listening-reading them instead.

I'm going to try anyway, but maybe you have some success stories to share.


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Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6199 days ago

4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 75 of 164
28 March 2009 at 2:47am | IP Logged 
Kubelek wrote:
Has anyone tried LRing with the text they didn't know before? I have problems gathering materials for the books I have read repeatedly. There are many books that I'd like to read though, so I was thinking about listening-reading them instead.

I'm going to try anyway, but maybe you have some success stories to share.



Yes. I find reading the text once beforehand is much, much better than never having read it. Texts I've read multiple times seem even better, as long as I don't start disliking them from the repetition ("The Little Prince" stays nice; "The Master and Margarita" only goes stale slowly - but I haven't really liked repeating most other stuff I've tried) - but reading it just once ahead of time seems to gain a large chunk of the benefit.


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jeff_lindqvist
Diglot
Moderator
SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6669 days ago

4250 posts - 5710 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*, English
Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 76 of 164
28 March 2009 at 2:51am | IP Logged 
Yes, I've tried it in Swedish-German with Elfride Jelinek's "The Piano Teacher" and in English-Russian with Boris Akuinin's "Sister Pelagija and the white bulldog". Not that successful. I'm eager to try it out with other content, though.


1 person has voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6199 days ago

4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 77 of 164
28 March 2009 at 3:12am | IP Logged 
icing_death wrote:
Bob Greaves wrote:
I am sorry to make this this thread even longer without adding anything significant. I would like to remind all that this forum is called, and I assume meant to be about, How to Learn Any Language. It's not about how to display one's erudition, nor is it about how to slag off systems/methods that one doesn't like or hasn't tried.
Instead let's say thanks to aYa and those that genuinely try to help.
If you don't like L-R to just leave it there and move on (unless there is really something helpful to contribute).

There's nothing wrong with criticizing a method. Debating it's validity may prove useful to some.


Criticism based on experience is an excellent thing. Acknowledging shortcomings is important: it lets people evaluate better without direct experience (life is too short to try everything; this can help people prune things out), it gives people directions to look for improvements in, etc.

Irrelevant criticism, whether in the form of "LOL!!!!" or misapplied theorizing ("Bumblebees can't fly..... if you use an equation describing an entirely different sort of wing... let's ignore reality and insist our interpretation of the equation is correct!") add nothing.

"Debating validity" is valuable, to the extent it's based on reality - not popularity contests, not debating skills (including dirty tricks like ridicule), and not premade assumptions which one is not willing to update when slapped in the face with the fact that they're wrong or irrelevant. This is necessary for all parties in a debate, for it to be anything but an utter waste of time.

"Debating validity" for the sake of 'equal time' regardless of the validity of a viewpoint, or for the sake of debate itself is a waste of time. The only people I see it being useful for are those who research wastes of time, invalid debating techniques (this sort of debate is usually full of them), etc.

Persisting in repeating the same arguments, when they're proven to be wrong by reality (whether or not there are relevant, published scientific studies) is useless. It adds noise, but no information.

The value of debate is in increasing the amount of information available.

2 persons have voted this message useful



icing_death
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5621 days ago

296 posts - 302 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 79 of 164
28 March 2009 at 5:39am | IP Logged 
aYa wrote:

The texts in clitty-titty will be self-explanatory and highly enjoyable, you won’t get tired (on the contrary, you’ll get happier and happier) and you’ll guess the meaning of at least half of the sentences in clitty-titty.

So you advocate using x rated material? Interesting.

aYa wrote:

Acquiring ANY SKILL means going through an INCUBATION PERIOD, during which you get confused time and again at first.

Agreed. Maybe you should stop telling people it only takes 2 weeks to become a good reader from scratch.

aYa wrote:

I found out from my own experience and a few hundreds people studying on their own

Who were these people?

aYa wrote:

Some say listening comprehension is passive.
I couldn’t agree less

I say your method is passive, and thus won't work well for many people. But if one wants to spend the time to find out, why not.


aYa wrote:
it is the most difficult skill to acquire

For all languages except Japanese and Chinese, I agree

aYa wrote:

Speaking is easy: almost everything depends on the above. You might decide to repeat after the recording, after you’ve reached the stage of natural listening it should be very easy and done without any effort. It does not matter if you repeat each word, phrase or sentence.

Disagree. Although repeating lines like this will help a little, it certainly won't make you a good conversationalist by itself.
1 person has voted this message useful



icing_death
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5621 days ago

296 posts - 302 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 80 of 164
28 March 2009 at 5:49am | IP Logged 
aYa wrote:
Each element of L-R separately does not seem so significant. If you put them together as a whole system, they become extremely effective, the most important ones being:
- massive exposure in a short period of time (7 to 10 days)
- self explanatory texts
- parallel e-novels with good quality audio, the longer the novel the better
- Step 3 (read L1, listen L2)
- learning how to pronounce properly

Using the same novels to learn languages is a very good way of saving time.

I would like to know how many people here have become a good reader from scratch in 10 days or less using this method. Can you read a newspaper or novel (that you haven't read before) at that point, with good comprehension? If not, could you estimate your percentage comprehension of a newspaper or novel?


1 person has voted this message useful



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