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Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5792 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 42 of 164 26 March 2009 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Experiment for myself?!? Suddenly I'm off the giant's shoulders and just trying to get a hand up on his big toe. You've brought me right back down to ground level -- suddenly there's no method and no technique. You're all doing different things and calling them the same thing, and if anyone objects it's invalid because we haven't tried it. And you won't tell us what to try. Anyway, I wouldn't want to start a new experiment as that wouldn't prove anything -- experiments are all about repeatability, and you've given me nothing to repeat. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 5934 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 43 of 164 26 March 2009 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Can't you stay on the giants shoulders and make finer refinements that suit your own preferences? The L-R 'creator' has offered the framework they find useful. Can't you work within that to see what works for you or are you completely dependent on the thoughts of others in your own decision making process?
I thought it was obvious that I wasn't using the word 'experiment' in the scientific sense. Evidently I was wrong. Edited by Jimmymac on 26 March 2009 at 6:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6220 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 44 of 164 26 March 2009 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Clearly, the unicorns gave them to her. Why did they do that, I wonder? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6220 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 45 of 164 26 March 2009 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm not getting into a discussion with you, but for the sake of your discussions with others, I would prefer that you not mis-represent me. While something like L-R can be done without a parallel text (see FSI's post) and I mention it as a possibility, it works much better with parallel texts. I have done most of my experimentation with parallel texts, and I advocate using parallel texts. If I didn't think they were important, I wouldn't have invested a few dozen hours making them recently (as I mentioned earlier in this thread). Everyone who it's worked for agrees on the length of the text: long. No one has had success with, say, a total of 7 hours of audio, much less two, as far as I know. Consensus seems to be around the 20-40 hour length (of audio, not of total time invested), although this can be spread across multiple books. There is disagreement about literal translations, but only for distant languages; for close ones (such as your second Romance or Slavic language), everyone agrees they are not needed. Edit: also, no one has claimed literal translations hurt. So, there are two perfectly valid alternatives for anyone who wants to avoid bringing the disagreement into play: go for a closely related language, or use literal translations (whether for a close or far language). Hence, non-issue. Edited by Volte on 26 March 2009 at 6:25pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6690 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 46 of 164 27 March 2009 at 2:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
This I like. I think it was said in the original thread that "most people" won't even try the method even if 50+ (intensive) hours is all it takes. So, it's easy to say it couldn't work because they will never try it. My main problem is finding interesting content for my language combinations. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| icing_death Senior Member United States Joined 5642 days ago 296 posts - 302 votes Speaks: English* | Message 47 of 164 27 March 2009 at 5:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
So do this for a minimum of 60 (20 X 3 = 60) hours and you will see an improvement of the magnitude you and a few others have documented, but not as much as furio? I believe you. I don't believe it will be more effective than other methods for that period of time, but I'm sure you will notice improvement. If you enjoy it, why not go for it? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6220 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 48 of 164 27 March 2009 at 5:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Who or what is furio? And yes, it -is- that much more effective than other methods for that period of time; I went from zero knowledge of Slavic languages to having a reading knowledge of Polish sufficient to get the gist of atamagaii's "the gist" document on L-R, use phonetics materials in it without much problem, etc. Time invested - around 60 hours, give or take a couple dozen... I didn't bother with active use, and I didn't do the Polish L-R time intensively (and I find that, the more intensively I do L-R, the better the results, by far), but even so... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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