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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6676 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 17 of 25 28 April 2009 at 3:21am | IP Logged | ||
"Meänkiel" being touted as a separate language is apparently a purely political exercise to gain some kind of recognition in the area from Swedish officialdom, that has a history of being particularly insensitive and intractable on issues such as this one while often being the first in condemning discrimination and injustice occurring in faraway places. While I can sympathise with the meänkiel supporters and wish them success in gaining recognition for their mother tongue and ethnic and cultural identity, I feel that from a purely linguistic standpoint, anyone who would honestly classify it as a language different from Finnish would need to have their head examined. There is a flash-player meänkiel language course on line somewhere which was extremely funny to watch. I'll have to post the link when I can find it again. Karelian is another borderline case, though there the differences are clearly bigger. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6938 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 18 of 25 02 March 2011 at 6:16am | IP Logged | ||
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If anyone is still interested in this topic, here's an Estonian professor's handout and a slideshow (between slides 34 and 42) which compares Estonian and Finnish.
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| Altaica Triglot Newbie Estonia Joined 4794 days ago 9 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Estonian*, EnglishC2, French Studies: German, Russian | Message 19 of 25 06 March 2011 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I spend two weeks in Findland, I understand most of what they're speaking by the end of the second week. I speak back but use a lot of Estonian words. They understand :). Finnish is easier to study for Southern Estonians, especially for those who speak the Võru dialect. The Võru dialect has the vocal harmony and a lot of overlapping vocabulary. At the moment I'm learning the Võru dialect (which is extremely close to Estonian but some linguists, me among them, consider it to be a separate language) to create a basis for my Finnish. I already have a very good feeling about this.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6938 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 20 of 25 06 March 2011 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, Võro is a rather special case and has certain traits that are closer to Finnish than Estonian. On the other hand, it looks a little weird to me with all of the Qs. As you probably know Colloquial Finnish is closer to Estonian than Standard Finnish is, and so hearing Puhekieli instead of Yleiskieli likely made things even easier for you than otherwise.
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| Altaica Triglot Newbie Estonia Joined 4794 days ago 9 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Estonian*, EnglishC2, French Studies: German, Russian | Message 21 of 25 13 March 2011 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh yes, they are standardising the Võru dialect - something that makes Võro people see red. You do not write Võro, you speak it. "Q" markes the glottal stop (the consonant that is not there in Estonian but is, for example, developing in Br English instead of the "t") in the standardised Võru dialect.
Anyway, I will be needing Yleiskieli. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| aabram Pentaglot Senior Member Estonia Joined 5315 days ago 138 posts - 263 votes Speaks: Estonian*, English, Spanish, Russian, Finnish Studies: Mandarin, French | Message 22 of 25 14 March 2011 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | ||
So thats why I have no particular trouble understanding Võro while many other northeners are outright baffled by it. Never though it could be related to me knowing Finnish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Thatzright Diglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5454 days ago 202 posts - 311 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: French, Swedish, German, Russian | Message 23 of 25 14 March 2011 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Huh, you learn something new every day I guess. Taking a look at the Voru dialect's Wikipedia page, I noticed that it does seem to be quite different to standard Estonian. Probably not that diffent, but if Swedish and Norwegian are separate languages and not dialects of a common Scandinavian language then I think the case could be made for Estonian and Voru being separate languages too. We need more living Finno-Ugric languages, people : D And I highly doubt raising the status of Voro would lead to any separatism in Southern Estonia, although the thought crossed my mind... but it'd be a long way to such a situation anyway. Voru is in a lucky position in that it is spoken in a country that will (probably, I hope not) try to eradicate or supress it. The Karelian language/"language" (a borderline case, very similiar to Finnish and could be considered a dialect too, but again, kind of like Swedish and Norwegian...) spoken (for now) in the Russian Republic of Karelia is not so lucky, as its speakers are growing fewer day by day and obviously many are being assimilated to the Russian people too... as they probably should, seeing as they are living in Russia, but it is a sad thing from a linguistic standpoint. Not that many people in Finland care about this at all...
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6938 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 24 of 25 14 March 2011 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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There is an idea that Võro (and Mulgi and Seto) could be more accurately analyzed or classified as forming a group that's distinct yet not descended from northern Estonian (i.e. the basis for standard Estonian). The idea is that Võro, Mulgi and Seto may have originated from the speech of people who were part of a different migratory wave compared to people who settled in northern Estonia. There are also some noticeable isoglosses distinguishing these 3 entities from northern (i.e. standard) Estonian.
I can put down some of these characteristics in a post later on today when I get a chance to consult my references. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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