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Usage of Polite/Formal You... | ||
Tags: Polite/Informal Forms | Multilingual | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5648 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 17 18 June 2009 at 9:32pm | IP Logged |
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I'd like to get a better understanding of where the "polite you" situation is at in different countries!
I mean Du/Sie, Tu/Vous etc! I think there is a bit of a reality gap between what people are taught in learning material and what actually happens in everyday situations. I listen to my German, French and Spanish colleagues and I can't really make sense of when they use which and what the justification is...! Sometimes it's opposite to what I think it ought to be. I have the impression that Germans are the most conservative but it seems to vary between individuals. I don't know at all what the situation is in Eastern Europe, but I get the impression that Russia is quite formal too. Are things changing with this, if so, how? ---- In Sweden this was quite formal until the 1970s when "Ni" became unusual. Exception is when you are speaking to somebody very old or grand, or dealing with a conservative/old-fashioned institution or a traditionally minded person. Some people use it to make a point that they are very polite and well-mannered. But for me to use it to someone my own age would be absurd. You can also get around it by using something else, like saying "Grandmother" (third person) to her instead of impolite "Du". Edited by cordelia0507 on 18 June 2009 at 11:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5487 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 2 of 17 18 June 2009 at 10:27pm | IP Logged |
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In Urdu (and also Hindi to a lesser extent) the formal is Aaap and the informal is Tomme.
Given the level of social inequality in the Indian subcontinent, use of both the formal and informal has remained. You can expect to hear the formal in address to elders (by which I mean one's elders; not those of others) , employers, and upper class people. Labourers and children can expect to be addressed with Tomme. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Rmss Triglot Senior Member Spain spanish-only.coRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6374 days ago 234 posts - 248 votes 3 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, English, Spanish Studies: Portuguese | Message 3 of 17 18 June 2009 at 10:31pm | IP Logged |
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In Dutch "jij" (you informal) is often used with people you know. "U" (you - formal) is used when addressing someone you don't know, your boss or an older person. You can also use it if you simply want to show respect.
I think in Flemish most people use "gij" instead of "jij", but the meaning is (officially) the same (although to a Dutch "gij" sounds rather formal). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5576 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 4 of 17 18 June 2009 at 10:43pm | IP Logged |
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Germany: Depends on the situation. For me Sie belongs to any kind of professional situation as well as to talking to adult strangers, though at 25 I still address my peers with du even when they are strangers. Between colleagues, du can also be alright if it's the right atmosphere. I've had jobs where people tell you to say du zu every colleague including your boss ("we're a team here!") and others that had a stricly hierarchical order and the boss and older colleagues might say du to their subordinates/younger colleagues, but the other way around it's unthinkable. I also heard that in the south, people are more likely to use Sie than in the north.
Oh, and in the internet it is uncommon to use Sie unless you use it professionally (and not even than always, depends on the line of business). If I were to write something addressed to Professor Arguelles for example I'd use Sie, and maybe for my old school teachers - but that's about it. Edited by Bao on 18 June 2009 at 10:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5648 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 5 of 17 18 June 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged |
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Is it common for foreigners to make mistakes with this, and what do people think if they do?
(It's not just failing to use the formal word, but potentially alienating peers who think you are a bit too stiff because you are too formal!) Do natives sometimes make mistakes on this, or are you always certain which one is right? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5479 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 6 of 17 18 June 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged |
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This whole formal/informal continues to haunt me. Sure, it is pretty easy to understand the concept. My difficulty (perhaps because I am from the UK, where no such thing exists) is instantaneously using the right form. All my friends are upset if I use the formal (they say it is an insult to the established relationship) and after a few hours speaking to them, I embarrass myself (and the other person) when by reflex I use the informal in, say, a shop or at the library. Even after several years, I have to catch myself all the time with this. Other areas of "fluency" seem to have come in with time, but not this one.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Olympia Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5791 days ago 195 posts - 244 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Old English, French | Message 7 of 17 18 June 2009 at 11:11pm | IP Logged |
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I've been wondering about this as well, but in Spanish I've seen that it somewhat depends on the country and the
generation of the person. In school, I was always taught to address the teacher and other adults formally, besides my parents (usually). My primary teacher was from Argentina, and she was very strict about these rules. When I went to Mexico, I still addressed every adult formally. Finally, one lady of about 65 said, "If you call me that one more time I'm going to get mad!" It was funny because my Argentine teacher would be offended if I addressed her informally, and the women in Mexico were offended because I addressed them formally because they felt it meant I hadn't developed a close friendship with them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5576 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 8 of 17 18 June 2009 at 11:29pm | IP Logged |
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As a native speaker you learn it as a child. Oh well, that is when you're not somebody like me who was brought up by a parent who wants to eliminate the formal register, or like a friend who has old parents (twenty years older than most peers' parents.)
But, well. When I address someone for the first time I just watch the other person if s/he flinches when I address her or him, or frowns a bit - that kind of thing. If that's the case I often stop mid-sentence, apologize and ask if I should use the other form. Or if I'm really unsure about the situation just ask beforehand what s/he prefers. I'd like to hear how other German speakers handle this! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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