"Serbo-Croatian" and its descendants (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

"Serbo-Croatian" and its descendants
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

28 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4

Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 4867 days ago
2096 posts - 2972 votes

Speaks: Russian*

Message 25 of 28

19 January 2013 at 12:33pm | IP Logged

beano wrote:

In Scotland, the Scots dialect/language was frowned upon in schools for
decades. Despite the fact that the
children were merely speaking the same way they would at home. Now it is more widely
accepted, Scots is
no longer viewed by the education system as "bad English" but rather a cultural tool.

Does Scots have any media? Are books written in it?
1 person has voted this message useful

Medulin
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Croatia
Joined 4479 days ago
1199 posts - 2192 votes

Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali

Message 26 of 28

19 January 2013 at 6:41pm | IP Logged

Solfrid Cristin wrote:

This is interesting. I did not know that Croatian and Bosnian changed into becoming slightly different
languages, but it is much the same that happened in Norway when we finally became an independent nation
after "the 400 year's night" of Danish rule, and 100 years under Swedish rule. We basically spoke Danish,
and then a linguist, Ivar Åsen, travelled around collecting traditional Norwegian words, and created "New
Norwegian (Nynorsk) from that.

However in Norway it never really caught on, and only about 15 % use it in its written form. The rest write a
modernized Norwegianized version of Danish.

I am not surprised that emotions run high in the matter though. Even in little peaceful Norway with zero
internal conflicts and with people in general being so dispassionate that I often wonder how we manage to
reproduce, emotions run very high when it comes to language. My mother told me of Nynorsk- families where
brother would not speak to brother because of disagreements over the right form of noun endings. And if you
listened to students who use Standard Norwegian, at the time when they have to pass their compulsory
written exam in Nynorsk you would think the blood thirsty Vikings were rising again.

I think tolerance and understanding - also for the fact that this is an emotional issue - is necessary,
particularly in an area with so much recent conflicts as the Balkans.

The Croatian situation is similar to the one in Norway.

People ask, are Serbian and Croatian the same language?
-I answer: No (Just like Norwegian and Danish are not the same language)

If they ask, are standard written Serbian and standard written Croatian the same language?
-I answer: Yes, in 99% of cases (Just like Danish and Bokmaal are very similar in the written form).

Standard Croatian is basically Croatized Serbian.
(like Bokmaal is Norwegian-ized Danish).
50% of Croatians speak dialects which are hard for Serbians to understand
(like 50% of Norwegians speak dialects which are hard for the Danish to understand)

Some Croatian dialects are closer to standard Slovenian than to standard Croatian / standard Serbian. (Just like some Norwegian dialects are closer to Swedish than to Bokmaal and standard Danish).

We too have our version of ''Nynorsk'', but it's used outside Croatia, in Austrian county of Burgenland (where Croatians fled during the Ottoman invasions, and prior the linguistic unity/influence with Serbia).

That being said, my Norwegian dictionary is: Norwegian-Serbian-Bosnian-Croatian dictionary, published by the UiO, It is unnecessarily large because everything is double-spelled in two alphabets. (Maybe the authors didn't know Serbian could be spelled in Latin alphabet as well)., for example:

SNO -dde
окретати * okretati; å sno noen rundt lillefingeren окретати неког око малог прста * okretati nekog oko malog prsta

Edited by Medulin on 19 January 2013 at 6:52pm
3 persons have voted this message useful

Innion
Diglot
Newbie
Croatia
Joined 4185 days ago
13 posts - 15 votes
Speaks: Croatian*, English
Studies: French

Message 27 of 28

20 January 2013 at 6:53pm | IP Logged

Ne pokušavaš valjda reći da je Hrvatski zapravo Hrvatiziran Srpski?
1 person has voted this message useful

Medulin
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Croatia
Joined 4479 days ago
1199 posts - 2192 votes

Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali

Message 28 of 28

21 January 2013 at 4:52pm | IP Logged

I was referring to the standard language. Most Croatians who speak a variety close to the standard live in areas which used to have a large Serbian minority (or even majority). My mother is Croatian from the region of Lika, and she speaks a very standard Croatian, but it's because 75% of people in her home village are Serbian. In the neighboring village which is 100% Croatian, the Chakavian dialect is spoken, and not Shtokavian.

Not rarely, even Croatian linguists mention: the most standard Croatian in the Croatian parliament is spoken by deputies belonging to the Serbian minority, like Milorad Pupovac, or Milanka Opacic.

Given than the original dialect chosen back in the 19th century for the standard language was East Hercegovinian ( mainly spoken by Serbs), no wonder more Serbs speak Shtokavian in a more standard-like form (that is devoid of dialectal features) than we Croatians do...

Some say, the most standard-like Croatian is spoken in Dubrovnik, but it is not.
The Dubrovnikian pronunciation sounds very regional/marked, it features a mix of regional traits (like the rounding of the A vowel, so GRAD is pronounced as GROD), and Montenegrinisms (as NIJESAM instead of NISAM).

Edited by Medulin on 21 January 2013 at 5:03pm

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