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Assimil French without toil vs New French

  Tags: Vintage | Assimil | French
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23 messages over 3 pages: 1 2
Elexi
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 17 of 23
02 November 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged 
Yes - that's true (I have the 78s from the early 50s and the 45s from the 60s) - but the
earlier lessons are much slower than the later lessons and so they speed up as the
course goes on. In my view, Assimil are right - I think to get the best out of the
Without Toil (or any Assimil) course one really should probably review the previous 3
lessons to the point where you can listen and understand without referring to the book.


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twopossums
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 Message 18 of 23
03 January 2013 at 12:12am | IP Logged 
Well hopefully I didn't screw myself up to bad. I've started without toil first. I listened to with ease and it
sounded so mechanical next to the older series and just a look through the first 20 lessons it did not
appear to me to be that well organized. The stories seemed to change within a lesson sometimes and
there seemed to be no story that went throughout. When I look through my older copy I'm have actually
said Wow out loud several times when I see how much they've jammed in there.

That being said my plan is to go through With Ease as well. The text in the older book can definitely get
outdated. Want to know what the french translation for a Milliner is? You'll find out in lesson 18. Right
after you look up what the heck it is in English. Lol. Or maybe you would like to talk about your feelings
about 'la crise ministérielle' see lesson 8.

OK maybe it does throw a bit much at you in the beginning now that I think about it....but I'm enjoying the
heck out of it and I would suggest it to anyone.

I'm not doing the Assimil technique. I'm using Shadowing and also memorizing the lessons and then
writing them out as best I can from memory. So I'm thinking when I hit lesson 50 and the "active " stage
instead of going back to lesson 1 in Without Toil I'll start lesson 1 in With Ease.
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Quique
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Spain
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 Message 19 of 23
03 January 2013 at 2:05pm | IP Logged 
twopossums wrote:
When I look through my older copy I'm have actually
said Wow out loud several times when I see how much they've jammed in there.

That being said my plan is to go through With Ease as well. The text in the older book
can definitely get outdated.

Want to know what the french translation for a Milliner is? You'll find out in lesson
18. Right after you look up what the heck it is in English. Lol.


I'm going through NFWE and FWT at the same time. If I had to choose only one of them,
I'd go with FWT.

FWT is longer, introduces more vocab and grammar, and I find the stories more
interesting. They certainly are from an era gone-by, but IMHO that adds some charm to
them.

I don't think French has changed that much, but I'm confident that when you dive into
native materials after FWT, you'll quickly learn any possible novelty.
1 person has voted this message useful



Elexi
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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938 posts - 1839 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 20 of 23
03 January 2013 at 2:26pm | IP Logged 
It would be useful to compose a list of what is archaic in FWT and the other Without
Toil Assimils.

For example, a major difference between FWT and NFWE is the question form - FWT tends
to prefer the now relatively archaic (or formal) subject-verb inversion (e.g. Allons-
nous au théâtre ce soir?) and NFWE uses the more current est-ce que form or the rising
intonation form (e.g. e.g. Est-ce que nous allons au théâtre ce soir?/nous allons au
théâtre ce soir?).

Of course, one will be understood if you use the subject-verb inversion form - but as I
have learnt from experience, one will often get a very funny look if you do, normally
followed by 'Oh you're English, I speak English', which defeats the object of learning
French somewhat - and also the promise of FWT that it 'is no 'school French' but the
real everyday language'

Another difference is the accents chosen - I have never heard anyone speak as Mr et Mme
Duval do on any of the recordings I have of FWT - but people do speak like the voice
artists on NFWE (except much faster). Can anyone tell me if the accent on FWT are the
equivalent of the RP English used on old Assimil English courses?

Edited by Elexi on 03 January 2013 at 6:38pm

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Jeffers
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United Kingdom
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 Message 21 of 23
03 January 2013 at 5:52pm | IP Logged 
I've listened to a lot of the lessons on the old FWT, but I haven't really used the course as such. I almost laughed out loud when I first heard the recordings. It sounds like the French equivalent to Laurence Olivier: over-pronounced, over dramatic, mid 20th century actor-speak. Somehow I doubt ordinary French people sounded like that even when the recordings were made.

Nevertheless, I agree with the assessments of FWT. Charming and useful. I've been wondering what to do when I've finished the passive phase but are just at lesson 64 of the active phase. I decided that's when I will start the passive wave of FWT. The nice thing is that you will finish the active wave of NFWE a few chapters before starting the active wave of FWT this way.
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emk
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 Message 22 of 23
04 January 2013 at 4:53am | IP Logged 
Elexi wrote:
For example, a major difference between FWT and NFWE is the question form - FWT tends
to prefer the now relatively archaic (or formal) subject-verb inversion (e.g. Allons-
nous au théâtre ce soir?) and NFWE uses the more current est-ce que form or the rising
intonation form (e.g. e.g. Est-ce que nous allons au théâtre ce soir?/nous allons au
théâtre ce soir?).


It's worth noting that NFWE is still pretty formal. At least in my experience, the normal conversational forms are:

Quote:
Est-ce qu'on va au théâtre ce soir ?
On va au théâtre ce soir ?


On a different note, there's a new generation of Assimil courses with a French base. These drop the sans peine entirely, and just have the language name. So far, I've looked at L'Égyptien hiéroglyphique and L'Espagnol, and both of them seem to start much slower than even NFWE, averaging maybe 6 short lines of text in the early lessons, with more detailed grammar notes. (To be fair, the final lessons still look pretty aggressive.) There doesn't seem to be one of these new editions for French yet.

Personally, I'm rather fond of NFWE, and I think the early lessons are more fun than the newest Assimil Spanish course. But my sample size is pretty small (3 courses), so this may just be random variation.

Edited by emk on 04 January 2013 at 4:53am

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Elexi
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5325 days ago

938 posts - 1839 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 23 of 23
04 January 2013 at 12:46pm | IP Logged 
A good point emk - although I must admit I didn't check if NFWE used the On form as
well (which I think it does)!

As to the newer courses - they are in the 'Collection Sans Peine' - so the sans peine
is still preserved...

I have done L'Allemand in this series and have Le Néerlandais and I agree with your
observation about it starting easier - one thing I have notice about the newer courses
is that they seem to make more effort to fit the formal syllabus of what is expected in
CEFR exams - so the conversations are less irreverent and more functional at the
beginning.

To be honest I preferred L'Allemand to German with Ease (I am not one of these people
who thinks that more words and more text necessarily equals a better course) - I found
it more useful, it had a better learning curve and the voice recordings were nicer.
But that is my personal preference.


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