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Is there a word to describe this? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5816 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes  5 sounds | Message 17 of 24 09 October 2009 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
Deshwi was insolent and pesky in a childish way and annoyed me enormously. He didn't provide any useful information but just decided it is a good idea to say "No, wrong".
I also agree that "religious intolerance" is the best answer to the question. My idea was simply to explore some related terminology. I definitely didn't want to turn it into yet another flame war, we already have enough of this. According to the Webster definition atheism is "2a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity". It is very much a question of terminology if you call this "intolerance". Such a person obviously has no internal tolerance for religion and believes religious people are *wrong*. In the same time there is no need for outward behaviour against religion. Edited by Sennin on 09 October 2009 at 11:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Deshwi Triglot Newbie Canada Joined 5382 days ago 31 posts - 38 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Arabic (Written), Turkish, Hindi, Persian | Message 18 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:15am | IP Logged | |||||
It's unfortunate that you took my comments to be rude, as that was not my intention. I was only trying to say that your definition was wrong. An atheist (a - without, theos - god), is just that, someone who doesn't belive in god. Granted there are atheists who are intolerant of religious beliefs (and those that aren't) , just as there are religious people intolerant of other belief systems (and those that aren't), but the definition remains the same, 'without god', not 'anti religion'.
And yes there are many people interested in turning these types of conversations into debates, I'm not interested, thanks. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Russianbear Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6557 days ago 358 posts - 422 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, Ukrainian Studies: Spanish | Message 19 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:28am | IP Logged | |||||
Atheism is not the same as religious intolerance. I am an atheist, and I think religions are stupid, but I am quite tolerant of people's stupidity and ignorance in general, and of religion-related stupidity and ignorance in particular.
Most atheists don't prejudge. (Some, like me) judge. And that happens AFTER the fact, so PREjudice is not the right word.
That is inaccurate. In my experience, atheists are relatively quite; it is religious people who tend to try to ram their beliefs down other people's throats. It is also a fact that atheists tend to be better educated than religious people. And atheists tend to be more tolerant. I am yet to see atheists fly planes into skyscrapers or blow themselves (and many other people) up for their atheist beliefs. Those things are done by folks who believe in god(s). And of course, "fundamentalism" kinda implies religiousness :) Edited by Russianbear on 10 October 2009 at 12:38am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5349 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 20 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:31am | IP Logged | |||||
This is no more than a silly stereotype. Sure, you remember the atheists who are out there calling theists stupid and brainwashed, but you don't notice the rest of us. Most atheists, like most people in general, don't like to get into pointless religious arguments that don't change anybody's mind. I simply haven't been convinced of the veracity of any religion, and have nothing against people who have. It amazes me that the concept of "religious intolerance" is often not extended to non-believers; comments such as the above which disparage and insult atheists are oftened uttered by people who would immediately condemn a similar comment spoken about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, etc. As I stated, I don't want to get into a pointless religious argument, and I realize this isn't the place for that, but I just wanted to point out that anti-atheist intolerance is just as offensive to us atheists as any other form of religious intolerance. As far as linguistics goes, "atheism" is by no means a synonym for "religious intolerance". Religious intolerance can be practiced by either believers or non- believers, and etymologically that's just not what "atheism" means. The word derives from French "athéisme", from the French "athée" (atheist), ultimately from Greek ἄθεος (á-theos), literally "without gods". "Atheism" is the absence of a belief in deities; "religious intolerance" is a completely different concept. Equating the two is like equating baldness with hatred of certain hair styles. Edited by Levi on 10 October 2009 at 12:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5816 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 21 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:36am | IP Logged | |||||
Deshwi, your explanation comes a bit late ;p. The way you formulated it before it was just an ungrounded statement, quote:
Now, how is it "not even close"? Not a hint... just like that, because you say. It definitely comes across as an arrogant comment and I'm a short tempered person with little tolerance for comments of the sort. Putting that aside, I see what you mean. People generally don't waste time in pointless discussion and "someone who does not believe in god" is a good enough definition for day-to-day use.
No one claims it is a synonym. I think it is just a type of religious intolerance, as any other, and that's based on reasoning about the act itself and not on the origins of the word. Edited by Sennin on 10 October 2009 at 12:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Russianbear Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6557 days ago 358 posts - 422 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, Ukrainian Studies: Spanish | Message 22 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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Sennin,
your post was wrong and prejudiced towards atheists and Deshwi (and several others) have corrected you. No big deal. The problem with your view is that you seem to think that a lack of belief in something somehow implies intolerance towards those who do believe in that thing. But that implies everyone - not just the atheists, but also the religious people and the agnostics- is (religiously) intolerant toward all the religions they don't believe in . Clearly, that wouldn't make sense, so it must mean your definition is flawed. And it is: just because I don't believe the Loch Ness Monster monster exists doesn't make me prejudiced towards those who do think it exists. For all you know, I refuse to believe in the monster on totally rational grounds, and don't care one way or another about the people who belong to the Loch Ness Monster faith. Substitute the Loch Ness Monster with Jesus/Mohammad/any and all other gods and you see how you are wrong. Edited by Russianbear on 10 October 2009 at 12:54am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5349 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 23 of 24 10 October 2009 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
How is atheism a type of religious intolerance? I don't get it. I'm an atheist and I don't have anything against religious people. My parents are religious, many of my role models are religious, in fact most people in my life are religious and I don't have any hatred or bigotry against them. Sure, I happen to think they're wrong, but everybody thinks that about people with different beliefs. Religious intolerance means hatred or intolerance for people with different religious beliefs from your own; atheism means not having a belief in a deity. Saying atheism is a type of religious intolerance is an offensive anti-atheist stereotype that, ironically, is itself an act of religious intolerance. Edited by Levi on 10 October 2009 at 12:51am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 6797 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 24 10 October 2009 at 1:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you, gentlemen, for all your comments but I'm closing this thread before the religious discussion overrides the language learning discussion.
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