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Strange tag: Penitenziagite

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simonov
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 Message 1 of 13
14 October 2009 at 7:20pm | IP Logged 
For all tag nerds.
I first noticed this "Penitenziagite" in the list of tags, useless to me as a non-pro member, and then again next to another post in this "General discussion" section. And so I think this is the correct room for this post.
I had no idea what "Penitenziagite" meant! I searched for it and found the explanation, via Google, in a thread started by the administrator on 26 April 2005. As I found it very interesting I thought others might like it too.
Here the link
The thread is quite short but very enlightening.



administrator
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 Message 2 of 13
14 October 2009 at 7:24pm | IP Logged 
I hope you will forgive this indulgence of your Administrator for an obscure but rather memorable tag for those who wish to pursue many languages at the same time!



Tupiniquim
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 Message 3 of 13
14 October 2009 at 7:35pm | IP Logged 
It's from the Name of the Rose. I loved the film, Sean Connery was awesome as usual. I hope to read the book soon!



simonov
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 Message 4 of 13
14 October 2009 at 8:39pm | IP Logged 
administrator wrote:
I hope you will forgive this indulgence of your Administrator for an obscure but rather memorable tag for those who wish to pursue many languages at the same time!

Yes, of course! Very memorable indeed.
I thought it was really interesting thread. And a good word to know to have people wonder what the heck you are talking about. I love it!





Fasulye
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 Message 5 of 13
14 October 2009 at 9:16pm | IP Logged 
Penitenziagite: (QUOTE) (Il Nome della Rosa, Umberto Eco)

"Penitenziagite! Vide quando draco venturus est a rodegarla l'anima tua! La mortz est super nos! Prega che vene lo papa santo a liberar nos a malo de todas le peccata! Ah ah, ve piase ista negromanzia de Domini Nostri Ieus Christi! Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors.. Cave el diabolo! Semper m'aguaita in qualche canto per adentarme le carcagna. Ma Salvatore non est insipiens! Bonum monasterium, et aqui se magna et se priega dominum nostrum. Et el resto valet un figo seco. Et amen. No?"

I am now very curious and want to know, which language it is. There are some Latin grammar structures in it, but this is not classical Latin, as I learned it at school. To me it seems to be a mixture of Italian and Latin.

Quote: "Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors" - This is neither Italian nor Latin.

Can somebody explain this language to me? Not necessary to translate it.

Fasulye



Edited by Fasulye on 14 October 2009 at 9:23pm



MäcØSŸ
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 Message 6 of 13
14 October 2009 at 10:16pm | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:
Penitenziagite: (QUOTE) (Il Nome della Rosa, Umberto Eco)

"Penitenziagite! Vide quando draco venturus est a rodegarla l'anima tua! La mortz est super nos! Prega che vene lo papa
santo a liberar nos a malo de todas le peccata! Ah ah, ve piase ista negromanzia de Domini Nostri Ieus Christi! Et anco jois
m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors.. Cave el diabolo! Semper m'aguaita in qualche canto per adentarme le carcagna. Ma
Salvatore non est insipiens! Bonum monasterium, et aqui se magna et se priega dominum nostrum. Et el resto valet un
figo seco. Et amen. No?"

I am now very curious and want to know, which language it is. There are some Latin grammar structures in it, but this is
not classical Latin, as I learned it at school. To me it seems to be a mixture of Italian and Latin.

Quote: "Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors" - This is neither Italian nor Latin.

Can somebody explain this language to me? Not necessary to translate it.

Fasulye



It’s a mix of languages (Italian, French, Latin, Spanish, English and maybe others).
In the film Sean Connery describes him as speaking “all languages, and none”.





Iversen
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 Message 7 of 13
14 October 2009 at 11:54pm | IP Logged 
Fasulye wrote:

Quote: "Et anco jois m'es dols e plazer m'es dolors" - This is neither Italian nor Latin.

Can somebody explain this language to me? Not necessary to translate it.



It looks like a corrupted version of Ancient Occitan, maybe influenced by Norditalian dialects. I'm not quite sure of the meaning, but I guess it would correspond to this in Modern French:
"et encore joie m'est doux et plaisir m'est douleur" (and yet joy is sweet to me and pleasure is pain).

... which sounds somewhat confused. Any better proposals from resident Occitans?

EDIT: or maybe somebody has read the whole book and knows the authorized translation? I dropped it even before the two itinerants had reached the monastery. Eco's previous semiotic treatises were more my style.

Edited by Iversen on 15 October 2009 at 9:37am





meramarina
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 Message 8 of 13
15 October 2009 at 4:56am | IP Logged 
So that's what the word means!   I was wondering about it, too. I remember that guy now, a little. I haven't seen the movie, and I don't have the book here to look at, but if I recall correctly, this character speaks in a mix of several languages all at once and is only semi-intelligible.

Iversen, don't feel badly about not finishing the book! I read it, but barely got past the beginning. The prologue is particularly thickly written, but the story's plot and pace both pick up quickly past that point. (I must be feeling literary and alliterative lately - words are arriving in weird ways). When I read your post, I remembered something from Eco's introduction in which he states that he intentionally set it up to give the reader some trouble.   I looked it up: here's a reference from a review:

"Eco himself has admitted that the first hundred pages were deliberately opaque, a sort of semi-permeable membrane that allowed passage to only the most dedicated reader" -- Allen B. Ruch

review

I'm sure you are a VERY dedicated reader, and I think Eco overdid the density of the book's start.   

Interestingly, the book is cited as part of the definition of an "Unread Bestseller," that is, a book bought by many but read by few, over here at Wordspy: The Word Lover's Guide to New Words:

Wordspy

Be careful if you explore this website--it's addictive!

I can't remember most of the philosophical, historical and symbolic details from the text. They were fascinating, but there were just too many all at once. It does, though, turn into a very engaging murder mystery.

I saw an exhibit at Stiftsbibliotek St. Gallen last year called: "Geheimnisse auf Pergament" about monastary manuscripts with all sorts of embedded secrets and symbols. I was thinking about the Name of the Rose when I was there, and I came home with some really cool postcards for my wall, which I lost.   I mean the cards, not the wall . . . oh, words and mysteries . . . so much fun!

EDIT: I tried making hyperlinks but it didn't work - Error 404?
EDIT: Many Months Later. Fixed the links: the error was simply not knowing how to do this at the time

Edited by meramarina on 12 April 2010 at 3:57pm



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