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Level of fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| free4eternity Diglot Newbie Australia Joined 5304 days ago 8 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English, Cantonese* Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 1 of 34 03 November 2009 at 7:51am | IP Logged |
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Hi all, I am just wondering how would you define fluency in a language. Say, I've lived in English speaking countries for a number of years, and I've been told that I write better than some native speakers. I am aware of the grammatical structures of English as I explicitly learned them; however, I do mix them up in rapid speech from time to time. Will you say that I am fluent in English?
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| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6225 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 34 03 November 2009 at 12:42pm | IP Logged |
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Yes.
Native speakers sometimes stumble while speaking too - I certainly do in English, and I'd be surprised if you never stumble in Cantonese. If you stumble much more often/worse in English, I'd say you're at basic or advanced rather than native fluency, but I wouldn't doubt that you're fluent. Technically, I can't be sure, as I haven't heard you speak, but given your level of written English, and that you can participate in rapid conversations, it certainly seems that you are fluent. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| novemberain Triglot Groupie Russian Federation Joined 5630 days ago 59 posts - 87 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC1, Italian Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 3 of 34 03 November 2009 at 2:27pm | IP Logged |
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I'd say person is fluent in a language when they actually think in it. If you do, then yes, you are fluent :)
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| Levi Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 2268 posts - 3328 votes Speaks: English*, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Dutch, Portuguese, Mandarin, Japanese, Italian | Message 4 of 34 03 November 2009 at 3:55pm | IP Logged |
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It is important to remember that there is no fine line that divides the fluent from the non-fluent. There is a spectrum of skills, from no understanding of the language at all to the fluency of an educated native speaker. Where along that spectrum you start calling somebody "fluent" is a subjective matter. Edited by Levi on 03 November 2009 at 4:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Siberiano Tetraglot Senior Member Russian Federation one-giant-leap.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6279 days ago 465 posts - 696 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, ItalianC1, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Serbian | Message 5 of 34 03 November 2009 at 4:10pm | IP Logged |
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Thinking in the target language is an important skill. But the clear distinction between fluency and non-fluency is a very subjective matter. When you feel free in the target language, it's more important to note and work on the parts you're weak at. (Vocabulary, some tenses, moods, etc.)
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| Elwing Tetraglot Groupie United Kingdom Joined 5294 days ago 43 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Swedish, Finnish*, English, French Studies: Norwegian | Message 6 of 34 03 November 2009 at 11:02pm | IP Logged |
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Yeah, as has been said, you can't make a a clear cut division between fluent and non-fluent. It is when you feel confident in the language. It might come as a sudden realisation (that's what happened to me with English) that you just think you could do so many things in the language. And the ability to think in the language is key although this does not necessarily mean even advanced fluency. I think even at basic level of fluency you can think at least a bit in the language.
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| Sprachgenie Decaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5495 days ago 128 posts - 165 votes Speaks: German*, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Faroese, Icelandic, Flemish, Persian, Swiss-German Studies: English, Belarusian | Message 7 of 34 04 November 2009 at 12:13am | IP Logged |
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I think the original poster brings up a good point. As good as he his in English, he is still somewhat in doubt about whether he is fluent. In order to be considered fluent in a language, a person should understand everything in spoken or written form just as well as a native does. To be advanced fluent, the person should be able to express himself on the same level and with the same grammatical accuracy that a native speaker can (with the exception of a very slight accent).
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| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6638 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 8 of 34 04 November 2009 at 11:24am | IP Logged |
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An educated native speaker. Your average Joe Blow can't do half of the things you mention. Secondary (or functional) illiteracy is spreading like a plague in western 'enlightened' societies.
Reading aside, our Joe Blow will probably not understand a debate on TV, or speak coherently. That covers all four basic language skills. They are still native speakers. In many professions you will not meet those people, but ask a physician working at a hospital what it's like. Everybody gets sick, so they meet people from all social groups. Edited by Kubelek on 04 November 2009 at 11:26am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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